James Piacentino | Preventing Addiction Through Genetic Testing

Could the opioid crisis be solved through genetic testing? What if doctors could identify your addiction risk before prescribing pain medication? These questions drive the innovative work at Thrive Genetics, where personalized medicine is revolutionizing how we approach pain management and addiction prevention.

James Piacentino shares his journey from tech executive to healthcare innovator, motivated by watching his father struggle with alcoholism and prescription drug addiction. This deeply personal mission led him to create a system that combines genetic testing with behavioral analysis to generate comprehensive addiction risk profiles for patients before medical procedures.

The science is compelling – addiction typically stems from a 50/50 split between genetic predisposition and behavioral factors. By analyzing both components through a proprietary algorithm, Thrive Genetics helps physicians tailor medication plans based on individual risk profiles. For high-risk patients, alternative approaches might include non-opioid medications or adjusted dosages, potentially saving countless individuals from developing dependencies.

We explore the staggering statistics behind the opioid epidemic (Americans consume 99% of global hydrocodone) and discuss how personalized medicine represents a balanced approach that maintains quality care while addressing cost concerns. James walks us through the patient journey – from initial testing to personalized treatment plans – and shares powerful stories illustrating the human impact of addiction and recovery.

Our conversation ventures beyond healthcare into profound territory, examining how family trauma shapes us, the nature of self-awareness in recovery, and philosophical questions about purpose and spiritual growth. James offers wisdom from both professional innovation and personal reflection, reminding us that sometimes our deepest wounds become the source of our greatest contributions to others.

Connect with Thrive Genetics at thrivegeneticsai.com to learn more about this groundbreaking approach to addiction prevention and personalized medicine.

http://www.thrivegenetics.ai/

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Thrive Genetics
• 13:31 How Addiction Risk Assessment Works
• 25:55 Genetic vs. Behavioral Factors in Addiction
• 38:16 Personal Stories of Family Addiction
• 50:01 Self-Awareness and Recovery Journey
• 1:03:31 Technology Addiction and Future Challenges
• 1:12:54 Longevity, Purpose, and Soul Development

Transcript

Corey Berrier: 1:02

Welcome to the Successful Life Podcast. I'm your host, Corey Berrier, and I'm here with James Piacentino. There I have it.

James J Piacentino: 1:17

You said it way better than me.

Corey Berrier: 1:18

I thought for sure I was going to be able to pull that off, but I don't know why. I thought that because I usually mess up most people's last names for some reason. And yeah, so, james, what's up? Dude, nice to see you thanks for doing this.

James J Piacentino: 1:31

Appreciate it. Pleasure to see you again to chat yeah, man for sure.

Corey Berrier: 1:36

so I do. Um, just to set the stage here, one of the reasons I wanted to have you on is because you're working in a part of the industry that affects a lot of people in well, could affect a lot of people in recovery, and I think what you're doing is really powerful. If we can save I shouldn't say save we can prevent people from getting hooked on opioids and all the things that people get hooked on, I think that's a really good thing. And so, if you don't mind, before we, before I dive into a bunch of questions, do you just want to tell us a little bit about Thrive Genetics and what you guys are putting together over there?

James J Piacentino: 2:26

Yeah, sure, I can maybe just give you a little bit of the origin story, because it creates a real nice stream of conscious thought and I think it stems from a little bit of where we all come from is asking questions about life, right? So I was 25 years deep in a career in tech. I helped build two startups and they got sold. I helped corporations build big P&Ls and work for our CEO, a publicly traded company, and one of the things he always used to throw out there was, like you really have to take on challenges that are beyond you, beyond who you are and your ego, and it was a really critical moment to say, wow, we're well beyond just being who we think we are. We're capable of things we don't even know.

James J Piacentino: 3:21

And I grew up in a family that had my father was an alcoholic and he had some pill prescription addictions from his surgeries and it was like one of those things where I grew up in a very tumultuous household and I don't know. I didn't know what normal was. He was a nice dad, he was a good dad, but he was not a good husband. Unfortunately, my mom and there's just a lot of stress in our house and when someone is an addict or an alcoholic or whatever it may be, of any form. It puts such a pressure on everyone in the family, it shapes you. So I was like pretty deep in my career and I'm like all right, something kept telling me why don't we ever figured out addiction, like how to prevent it? Like why did the kids have to go through what I went through? Now, I was never an alcoholic or I never had an issue, but my father did and my grandfather was a gambling addict. I came to find out. So then I'm like well, what are my kids? So then I really started weighing on me just sitting on my shoulder. What are my kids? So that really started weighing on me, just sitting on my shoulder, tapping me every once in a while, going, hey, do you ever figure out this thing about addiction?

James J Piacentino: 4:35

Yet Subconscious thought over time and I got to a point where I was climbing a mountain in Maine by myself and I was like, why can't we figure this out? Is it genetic? Like everyone asks. Well, you have genetics. I was like, well, that's like the hot thing to say. So I started to research it and I found that, scientifically, addiction comes from a combination of genetics and behaviors. It's not just genetics and it's not just behaviors. It's actually a combination of the two and each one of us are unique in our blend. So, generally speaking, it's 50-50 genetic and behavior and it was like one of those things that's like well, this is really interesting. And I started to really dig into who did the research, and there was like seven scientists around the country that I looked into, interviewed and talked to them and what I came to find out was there's a lot of science sitting in research labs that's just being used for scientific and research purposes. It's never been brought out to the world to help people. So here I am, 25 years into tech, building, inventing products, making people all kinds of money, and I was like why can't I take this, put my tech hat on? Can't I take this, put my tech hat on and create that? Well, here I am right. So it's Thrive Genetics is the company. So I'm backing into answering your question.

James J Piacentino: 5:54

The company has a digital health platform that physicians use to identify addiction risk in a human before they prescribe them any type of medication for surgery. So, while we can satisfy a lot of things, this happens to be the niche we're in today. We'll expand later. But let's just stick to where we are today. A physician goes into a system, gives somebody a genetic test, gives them a behavioral exam. The data comes together when our proprietary algorithm that creates an addiction risk score. So that's very simple. Anybody gets their addiction risk score. They know where they fall. That doctor then takes that information with their blood work, which is not relative. It's just something that happens in, say, cancer or spinal surgery. A lot of people went through spinal surgery, took opioids and got addicted. This is exactly the patient profile we're trying to identify before someone goes into these procedures that they're at risk or they're not. And then the doctor changes the prescriptions to fit what is best for that person so they don't come out of it with a problem or develop one right. And if they don't have a predisposal, the doctor knows how to best manage the medication. So they come out of the procedure healthy and ready for the world, right. But up to 25% of people get addicted in these processes, which is a lot of people and it's a multi over $100 billion problem in society. So Thrive Genetics has the platform and the science that's clinically proven.

James J Piacentino: 7:18

My co-founder's done 10 years of work, upwards of $40 million of grants to get the science right. We're now we're taking it out to markets that are working with hospital systems and pharmaceutical companies, because a lot of their products fit into the process of healing, helping with the pain management process. So, without boring you too much with the technical stuff, the company was spun out of a I don't know, I'm pretty old, I'm 51. So it came out of 50 years of pain and emotional lack of a better word discomfort that I could probably do something to help here with my background. Why wouldn't I? So that's when I went out and I found my co-founder and we created this. So we're about three years in currently raising money to expand it into two really large hospital systems that want it. But I need some funding to grow a little bit more. So that's the company, that's the background, but I think I over-answered your question, but I wanted to at least put a little color to it.

Corey Berrier: 8:20

No, that was great. That was great. So I did a little bit of research and some of it's dated, but I was really shocked. So I've got a thing here that says it's in 2018 that Americans consume 99% of the global hydrocodone. The global hydrocodone supply 99 percent. That number is absolutely mind-boggling to me and I just wonder why here? Is that because we don't have the regulations? Is that because the and this is a side question how are you going to? I love what you're doing, but it makes me think. Pharmaceutical companies make a shit ton of money on these medications and they're incentivized to make sure that and or they wouldn't be selling. I don't know. It says 21 million prescriptions a year back in 2023. It's probably even higher than that now, and so it makes me wonder if you're the brand you've developed, it could be, it could be a. It could be counterproductive to what they're trying to do. Does that make you? Have you thought about? I'm sure you thought about that.

James J Piacentino: 10:33

Yeah. So there's a lot of angles there and I'm not sure the numbers exactly, but I can answer your question. So there's two parts to your two part answer. Answer your question. So there's two parts to your question. One part is just like the way in which a capitalistic society and every other society works. So when you have social systems or basically a profit and loss center and a cost center, it's everything all in one. So our neighbors in Canada, they have it right In Europe and such those systems are really trying to contain costs.

James J Piacentino: 11:15

Okay, so if you think about it and this actually went into our market of how we developed the market for how we're going to approach customers, those social systems, all they're worried about is just first saving right and second healing. Maybe not in that order. I don't want to infer any negativity on anything. Maybe they're worried about healing first and saving second. That's probably a better way, politically correct way to say it. But in capitalist society I think we've got all these complexities in the healthcare system and those complexities and all the insurance complexities that we see create, like what you were saying earlier, a profit and loss opportunity for an entity or capitalistic entity. Opportunity for an entity or capitalistic entity. Now I will say a lot of the doctors we work with are really they're pulling everyone's pulled back because of the crisis. So now what you have to look at is what should we be doing to also save costs to the hospital and to the system and the taxpayer and still run a capitalist society?

James J Piacentino: 12:24

Pharmaceutical companies aren't necessarily evil, they're just, they're a capitalist company. That's what they are, right, yeah, of course, yeah. So okay, if we want to maintain that balance as a country and we look at the both sides of the equation, what should we be doing? We should be creating personalized medicine, Because personalized medicine what it does is it allows us to save some costs because we're focusing on that person's needs not over-prescribing, but not under-prescribing. And when we have personalized medicine, it should also increase the quality of the care, and if somebody needs more, they should get more. So I think what if I'm bringing the two parts together when I just went through? The way I see it is, if you create personalized medicine, you're actually supporting both sides of the equation the cost savings and the revenue generation.

James J Piacentino: 13:14

Now I'm giving you a business answer here. That's not necessarily a human answer. The human answer is the quality of care for personalized medicine should and will go up. So that's why what we've created is a personalized medicine approach to helping people understand their addiction risk so that when the doctor or the physician goes in to create this plan for that patient and I can give you maybe a, I can actually give you an example. I don't want to talk too much but I can give you an example like a patient's story literally take you through a journey where somebody really they want to get better.

James J Piacentino: 13:50

If you have throat cancer just real simple, painful, highly addictive drugs are needed because it's extraordinarily painful. The patient may not want them, but if you have three months to do this and you don't want it to be like, wow, the pain is so bad it's going to go six months, no, because then mortality rate goes up. So the personalized approach allows the physician to say, okay, this is about how much medication I should give you based on your risk profile. Let me create an alternative or personalized approach with different products from pharma, because not all pharma is bad. They have products that help us.

James J Piacentino: 14:26

Is there non-opioid products? There are glp1s, the what do you call them, ozempics, and they act numb the receptor. So if you have an addiction profile. You may want tenoxy from a genetic perspective, but if you take a glp1 it numbs the receptor, so maybe you only need two to stave off that pain. So there's pharma being the good guy actually coming in. But would the doctor know, without our tests, if you will or our process? Would they know to go that way? They won't. So we could actually help the pharmaceutical companies bring that product in to help people.

James J Piacentino: 15:02

So now, instead of six months and a lot of pain, your treatment is three months. You've got the right medication. It's personalized, so we're saving costs for the hospital system, we're increasing revenue, maybe for the I don't know for the GLP-1. And you're keeping that care of highest quality. But it is, it's personalized medicine. That's.

James J Piacentino: 15:24

My answer to your question is like that's the better way. That's the way we keep the costs at bay, still driving a capitalistic model, which we are in the United States, and still creating a patient care model that is of the highest quality, and I don't see that to be to have a lot of downfall. I think it's going to take time for the big powers that be to take this approach for everything. But let's do it one, one step at a time, and that's where I see our contribution to society as being significant, because we can help. We can really help here, and I've got a lot of doctors and physicians and leaders, hospitals and a lot of people behind what we're doing. So it's not just me coming up with this in my head in my office. This has been very clearly articulated from leaders. All right.

Corey Berrier: 16:17

So walk me through, all right. So I get admitted to the hospital and they have your product. Is this something? So they do, I think I don't know if you just mentioned it, but they do a mouth swab If you want to send off your genetic 1, 2, 3, whatever it is in me, whatever it's called. I think that's how they do it. I've never actually taken the test, but I've taken something where I had to swab. So you swab your mouth, you send it off the test. But I've taken something where I had to swab. So you swab your mouth, you send it off.

James J Piacentino: 16:50

but in the hospital. Do they have a quicker way of processing it than if I did it from home? Yeah, sorry, as my laptop plug came out there. So, yes, so this is an arranged. It's very arranged. So what they have is the platform. So I'll send you a picture. Maybe you can even pop it up on your screen. It'll show the patient journey.

James J Piacentino: 17:10

So the patient journey, if you use oncology for an example, let's say it's a three-month procedure. The first after your doctor unfortunately tells you yes, you have human papillomavirus, we have to scrape the cancer out of your throat, very painful. There's three steps. The first step is the physician has you come in to do blood work and to go through this swab, like you said, genetic and behavioral tests which will help them create the medication plan to support your comfort in this program. So that's like step one. And then step two we'll talk about that. And step three we'll talk about that in a second, but I'll give you the little picture and you can fly right into this.

James J Piacentino: 17:51

In the beginning, when you take the swab test, when you're sitting in the meeting, you get your blood done from your doctor, traditional blood work. The nurse practitioner sits down with you and says okay, I'm going to ask you a series of 20 questions those are your behavioral questions to understand your addiction risk. She doesn't need to even explain that, it's just them trying to better understand how to create a pain path for you that's healthy for you. So she asks the 25 questions and their basic questions lifestyle questions and then they also do the swab. They ship it out. This is the arrangement that we have on the back end with a lab that has a processing date five to seven days. They have to get that back so that lab comes back. It goes into the back end API of our system. Our system then takes that information the genetic information. It's already got the behavioral data because she does it on a laptop or an iPad and it goes to the back end and it's waiting over here. When this comes in, it triggers this to drop down. It comes together and the algorithm runs and gives the provider a one-page addiction risk score for the patient with a genetic breakout and a behavioral breakout and it says this is where your risks are and this is how you compare to the other 1.whatever million people are in this database for your genetic and behavioral risk. The patient doesn't necessarily need that information. You can check a box if you want it, but it's mostly for the provider to help create that medication plan for the patient's success and comfort. So that's the mechanics of it.

James J Piacentino: 19:27

So, yes, you were right, millions of other things. In a hospital they use swabs. It's a very basic thing. Genetic tests are mostly used in other ways. I suppose they don't consider behavioral and that's the gap in the market. You can take a genetic test. It's not going to give you your addiction risk, like ours is. That's specific to what my co-founder has built.

James J Piacentino: 20:01

But what's really the secret sauce is how she's taken the behaviors and the genetics and brought it together. That's really what's unique, because doctors today what they do is you walk in the room and they're just visually looking at you. They don't know if you're walking in with a history of it. You could say, oh, my grandfather had this, my father had that, my uncle had that.

James J Piacentino: 20:22

That doesn't mean even if your family is a line of addiction, it does not mean that you have it. It does not mean that your behaviors could be a teetotaler, because you just never really took to anything and your behaviors dictate so much your lifestyle where you live, that it can actually be almost null and void. Live that it can actually be almost null and void, even if you have it in your long history, that it definitely, certainly it doesn't help you if you do. But the behavior thing is just so, so, so under appreciated and it's everyone always looks one way or the other, genetic or behavioral, one or the other is useless, let's be clear. So that's how the process happens in the office with the doctor. That makes sense.

Corey Berrier: 21:13

So in those behaviors I do a lot of, I look into the mind and I go back and through, even through recovery and through doing the work that I've done internally. All those behaviors happen, usually between zero and seven. When you talk about the behavior profile and it's not even necessarily lots of times it is you're seeing somebody drinking or you're seeing them fighting, or you're seeing you don't get love as a child or whatever it is. There's a bunch of different factors that could contribute to that behavior of addiction in the future and I guess so is there a way? Are you finding the same thing, that usually those behaviors are formed at a young age, and maybe that's something you don't know? But like, I'll ask a different question. So you had not a great example with the fighting. I think you said right. You said that you're not a great example of how to be a good husband, or maybe even a good dad for that matter. And so those things you saw as a young kid and lots of times those things get exhibited in as an adult.

Corey Berrier: 22:42

For me that I can't. I haven't pinpointed it yet exactly what these things are, and they could be very simple. It could be something as simple, as your dad didn't tell you he loved you and therefore you felt rejected and abandoned and like a piece of trash. And you just since you've never worked on yourself, then maybe that's just how you feel from now on. And so you start exhibiting those traits in your adult life. You see him screaming at his wife. You start screaming at your wife. You don't know why you're screaming at your wife, and unless you do that deep work, then you may not ever figure that out. So how would you say, have you ever seen things come up like that for you, where maybe you snapped and you weren't really sure why you snapped? You went, why the hell did I just say that? Or why did I just do that? And you go oh, and could you trace it back? Have you gone that? Have you looked at those kind of things for yourself?

James J Piacentino: 23:44

You know what? It's very interesting that you mentioned that. Corey, my wife and I we both and I won't bring her into this, but we both came from something. She didn't have any issues in her family with addiction or anything, but I did with my situation I mentioned. Neither one of us have had any addiction problem, but what we both do share is exactly what you just said, which is there were these things that happened that shaped us. That shaped us and when you work at it it becomes a positive thing. Where you do something better, you grow your soul to become better. But a lot of people and because we've done it together, it's been great.

James J Piacentino: 24:37

But when you're not on that side of it and you're using it in the wrong way, it goes like a spiraling this way, which then I think, draw, it's like a magnet, drawing behavioral processes, if you will, that create an addictive situation.

James J Piacentino: 24:58

So, for example, you use a couple of ones I weren't, I wasn't necessarily familiar with as a kid, but I have my own bag of bag of tricks to share. One of the things I noticed with our we're raising kids too is that they don't. Kids aren't going to respond to you yelling and screaming at them, right. So like we never did that, I never did that, I never did that, but my parents did that and I was like well, my father? I can tell you a very clear story. I think about it all the time and I feel bad sometimes. Saying this to my dad was a good guy to me, but he would come home from the bar two in the morning, two 12, two 15, two 30, whatever it was, and when I heard him walking up the steps, my parents, my radar would go off. It was like right.

Corey Berrier: 25:57

Yeah.

James J Piacentino: 25:58

And then I'd hear him walk down the hallway and I'd be trying to sleep and I'm like I know what's coming, sure enough. 15 seconds later, the pitch A little higher, three minutes, they're screaming at each other. And I know well, if he wasn't out at the bar, my mother wouldn't be, she was sleeping, she wouldn't be like arguing with this guy. And sure enough, what do I have as an adult growing up? Three o'clock every night that alarm goes off. I'm looking around. Right, yeah, now I consider I eat extraordinarily well. I take care of myself.

James J Piacentino: 26:46

I've not sat down with any therapist or something, because my life's really good. I don't have any known things I shouldn't be doing. I have a nice family, great work, a lot of nice friends. I live a modest life. So why am I going to go there? And really I could, and I do spiritual work, like tonight.

James J Piacentino: 27:16

My wife and I are going to sit down. We have a lot of really cool Native American. What do you call them like? It's almost like a sweat lodge concept where you take all the different herbs and you burn them. Sit around it. We're not going to drink, we're not going to smoke, we just put a fire, we put it around us and we just are grateful, say a couple of thank yous. We had a good day. I'm going to thank whoever for you for being able to do this right. And she goes through her cathartic moment, I go through mine, we go to bed, we get up tomorrow and go to the gym. Tomorrow I'll go to the gym.

James J Piacentino: 27:54

But those moments, like when my father did that or those things, do not go away unless if you work on them. They do not stay down here. When you're yelling at your kid, they come out. So to me it was a really big deal to recognize that wasn't right, and then I need to figure out a different method. Do I catch myself? Sometimes when I'm doing, it comes out and steph will be my wife. She'll be like and I'm like oh yeah, I shouldn't be, like that's the old way, that's not the way, right, right.

James J Piacentino: 28:31

So I think for sure to answer your question and close the loop on it, all these things come out. They leak out through the, through the cracks. You have to be super cognizant of it, be extremely self-aware, like working on self-awareness, and I can clearly tell by your question. You spent a lot of time on that. I could just tell your body language, you don't have to say a word, I can read it. It's something that I can't stress enough.

James J Piacentino: 29:04

If someone asks me for help and people do sometimes ask me and I'm like man, I'm like I don don't know where to start for you because, like you gotta like, really you gotta really like put the brakes on, change gears and go the complete opposite direction and then baseline and then start going forward.

James J Piacentino: 29:22

Because, like you're so far in the wrong place and I see it in in society too, with egos. I've been in the music business for 30 somethingsomething years professionally Still am Well, a little bit less than I used to be. I was just talking to some famous guitarists today who I still work with, and the ego problems are such a— when you're out of that world and you see it, you go wow, now I know why you're. Oh yeah, it's very clear, and I think it all starts right there. You have to have that self-actualized moment to be able to just stop, and then everything should start to clear up. As you work on it, have you spent time doing it seems like, just by the way your energy is. Have you gone through that cathartic process in your life, in yourself? It seems like you have.

Corey Berrier: 30:16

I have, and there's layers. There's certainly layers, and so I'm going through a different, a little bit deeper layer. Now Currently there's, like I said, there's layers because there's character defects that come out and you're like why do I keep doing this same thing over and getting the same result? Well, it's the definition of insanity, as we all know. But sometimes we don't know why we do these things in the morning until you really self-reflect and go oh yeah, that's how could it be that thing that when I was young that's been 14 or it's been 35, 40 years ago like it shouldn't still be coming up would be the most logical answer. But it's just not. It's not really the, it's not really the right answer. The right answer is yeah, those things get imprinted in you at a very young age and a lot of times people you said yeah, you said I had a good dad and done the audit right.

Corey Berrier: 31:23

It's funny because I told I've always told the story that I had a great childhood. Well, the reason I visualize having a great childhood is because that's what I wanted to visualize. I wanted to believe that I had a good childhood and the reality is we lived in a nice neighborhood, we lived on the golf course. We were members of the country club. That doesn't mean I had a nice childhood, that just means there was material things around, and so I equated a nice childhood with living in a material place.

Corey Berrier: 31:55

But that doesn't mean I was out throwing football with my dad, because I wasn't. My dad is also a drinker and so when I go and reflect back on those things, my dad traveled a lot and so it wasn't there a whole lot. So when you think about, well, I would say, a normal childhood I'm not sure what normal is, but my normal was that my dad was very rarely there. My mom was a school teacher and went to school at night when I was younger and she was halfway not there. And so if you look at all these things like, was it a good childhood? Arguably no, not really. It wasn't like you're. But in my mind that's what that was, the story I told.

Corey Berrier: 32:39

And so you can't believe everything you think, and so I'm curious when you took this? Obviously you've taken the test. Yeah, the whole yeah, yeah, so did any of your. So how did you? I'll say score. That's the only way I know how to say it. Like, were you, would you be a candidate for not prescribing as many as much pain medicine? I guess is the best way to ask it.

James J Piacentino: 33:12

Oh, the way I think the best way to ask it, oh, the way I think the way to look at it was the results of it, my situation. I didn't have a high propensity. I will say that. I will say that this is a really interesting topic you're bringing up. I'm going to break it down into three parts and I'll do it fast. And everyone knows this type of person, or maybe you or your family members are this type of people, this type of person, or maybe you or your family members are these type of people. Do you ever meet somebody that took one drink and was like lit, like, like wow, that person went from like zero to either the devil or higher spirit, like for sure, some people don't know something. It's not the devil, it's actually like a and you go, wow, that was one drink. And then some people who need like can sit around and drink like six cases of beer and like go jump on the tractor and do a couple jumps and they're fine, okay, and then you've got everyone in between.

James J Piacentino: 34:30

My dad's's situation was I call him, he was a slow burn. So when we talk about genetic and behavioral the person who takes one drink and they never did anything else in their life, or one pill or one whatever, or one gambler. One pull of the thing and they're hooked right. I think that's where you see the genetic situation come up loud. My father was more of a slow burn. He was the guy like every day, 5 o'clock at the bar. He loved it. The roofers are rolling in at 3.30. The fishermen rolled in at 2, 2.30. By 4 o'clock when he rolled in, they were already pretty lit. So he's going pretty strong. By 5.30, all the when he rolled in they were already pretty lit. So he's going pretty strong. By five 30, all the office workers come in and by six 30, it's a raging party at the bar when he's supposed to be home for dinner. So I'm there on the phone hey, dad, is Joe at the bar? And I'm screaming back in the day. Who Joe was Joe at the bar and I'm screaming and yeah, then he comes rolling in at seven o'clock or something and then he'd go back at 830. When we go to bed he'd roll back to the bar. He was a slow burn. He was the type of guy who would just went on for a lot of years rolling the ball slowly. So I think he had a low genetic. If I had to do this test, he probably was a high behavioral low genetic because his lifestyle was not good, he didn't have a lot of responsibilities for work, he was out of work because he had a disability and he couldn't work. His back was legally a mess. He was in a really bad accident in a really bad accident and I think when you look at people, whether you take just in general, you'll notice the different types of styles.

James J Piacentino: 36:18

Like the guy started a charity of mine. He was telling me his story. I have this company called Unchained Brands. They sell T-shirts and we used to give them money to charitable groups in Los Angeles and Slash was a part of it. He helped us out A lot of famous rock stars and Johnny was my partner in this, or still is. Actually we just don't sell stuff anymore because I just don't have time. But he told me his story. He said I took a drink. I don't know if he wants me to share this. I don't think he would be upset about it. He's in recovery, he's doing great. But he took a drink and it was just like holy cow, this is like a next level. This is just unbelievable. It was like almost he couldn't say no anymore. He was toast. So I think if he was tested he would have been a higher genetic right. So I think that there's definitely Woody, though.

Corey Berrier: 37:21

All right. So let me ask you this.

James J Piacentino: 37:22

Sorry to interrupt you All right.

Corey Berrier: 37:22

So when you say he had been a higher genetic, I would almost wonder because all right? So as you were talking there, I'm trying to see all right, well, where was I at which one of those areas was I in? And maybe there could be a fourth area. It fits into that first area a little bit, but for me it was like I fit in. Now I can have a conversation with people that normally I feel very, very uncomfortable having a conversation with, people that normally I feel very, very uncomfortable having a conversation. So if I can drink and have more conversations and feel normal, I I wouldn't say unstoppable, but it made me feel just normal. It just made me feel normal, yeah.

Corey Berrier: 38:32

This is a me feel normal.

James J Piacentino: 38:33

Yeah, this is a really interesting point. I'm not going to interrupt you, I want you to keep going. But you know who else was like. That was Eddie Van Halen. If you ever hear Eddie's story how his dad gave him a drink when he was nine to knock the nerves off before he was going to go play, and Eddie's entire life, even as Eddie Van Halen as famous as he was and successful, he still needed to knock the edge off because he was nervous and it's like the dude was the greatest thing ever, couldn't have been a better guitarist in the world. Millions of people are like, yes, we're here for you, man. And he was like, oh crap, and he was nervous, right, and that would cut the edge and he had to do it and keep going, but that's. I don't want to compare you to Eddie, because maybe you've got some superior talent there, my man, but I think that's a very interesting point.

Corey Berrier: 39:23

Keep going Well. I just think that there's and really this probably comes from something again that's subconsciously buried, comes from something again that's subconsciously buried. And the only way that I've been able to get past that is by being in recovery and being, because when you first get, I say I guess you don't know because you're not in recovery, but when people come in first, especially well. I'll say, for me anyway it was a nightmare because I realized I've got to give up this thing that's been my friend and been my savior in situations where I couldn't otherwise maybe have a conversation or I couldn't talk to this girl or whatever it was.

Corey Berrier: 40:05

It was this crutch. And you know, going into a meeting of of recovery, you don't have that and you get all those same feelings over again. And the only thing that got me past that was I had to open my mouth, as uncomfortable as it was, as fearful as I was to open my mouth in front of a bunch of people that were just like me. It started building a muscle, just like you would in a gym, and eventually I got past the fear of talking to people and I don't have that fear now. But if I hadn't have gotten sober, I'd probably have to rely on that crutch from now on right, right.

James J Piacentino: 40:58

yeah, I've had a lot of conversations with people that said similar things and it is a muscle and it is developed. It's an emotional strength. You've built a resilience that you should be proud of, and one of the things I like to tell people and I'm going to say to you too, because I haven't gone through the process that you've experienced is I'm personally proud of you. I know that every hour, every minute, is an achievement, and the reason I can value that in you is because when I watched my father go through what he went through, he couldn't even walk through that door the door that you walked through that. Then you went through the knuckle writhing hell of every hour, every day, every week to get to the point where you're comfortable enough to be emotionally here to then be able to go out and stay sober and then to come onto a podcast to talk to a guy like me about what you've gone through.

James J Piacentino: 41:59

There is a million micro steps of success in your life that you've gone through that I couldn't even get my father to walk past the door. So I respect what you're saying immensely. The door right. So I respect what you're saying immensely and I want you to be always taking a minute to be proud of yourself, because, holy shit, dude, that's a remarkable achievement. It's actually harder, probably, to do what you just did than start apple like steve jobs did, I truly believe. I know how hard it is to start a tech company because I'm eating glass right now, but I'm telling you I can see what my family went through and how hard it was for people to cross over into the next place of healing. Every micro step you've taken is a million miles, so pretty incredible. Thank you For you to be able to tell this story.

Corey Berrier: 42:53

Something that you said a few minutes ago really put things in perspective, because we all have hard weeks.

Corey Berrier: 43:01

You just said you're in the grind right now, but something you said a few minutes ago really put my life in a different light when you said to me that your dad got into a car accident and was on disability legally disabled because of this accident. I don't know if it was his fault and it doesn't even matter if it was his fault, but it just made me think about dude, I'm really grateful that you know that I'm not in that situation. I'm really grateful for the troubles that I perceive today because, jesus Christ, I could be on disability for the rest of my life, with a massive amount of back pain and there's literally there's really not a whole lot of going up from there, like if you're, you can't work, you're in a lot of pain, you're legally on disability, like you're, you're capped at what you're going to do. And then I got to thinking how does the mindset work? How, how would I even handle something like that? I'm I'd like to think that I would be really positive, but I just don't know if I would be.

James J Piacentino: 44:16

Yeah, so what you're saying is really at home, and he was on disability from an accident. So he had two very severe things and this actually led to his problems. Not to get too far into my own time, I think, sure, when he was younger he was literally in a I think it's a coma. He got hit when he was a kid. He was in the back of a car and the driver put it in neutral and it rolled down a hill and got traffic came in. So one guy next to him died no drinking at all, they were just 18 years old like in a bowling alley or something, and the guy just got out of the 1950, whatever car it was back in the day wasn't in park and he rolled into oncoming traffic and my dad was in the back seat and some other guy and the other guy next to him died. The guy next to him had a scratch. My father was in a coma for months. What they didn't have back then was diagnostics to be able to read concussion syndrome.

James J Piacentino: 45:11

He had massive brain injuries that led to a lot of his poor decision-making as well throughout his life. You'd never know it by looking at him, but he had his face broken and his feet broken, all kinds of things. Then, when he was older, when he went on disability, he actually got hit in a parking lot and he really got whacked. He was in one of those company state cars. He was just backing out of his car after lunch having a hamburger and somebody just whacked him. I don't know whether they were drunk or what they were, but they hit him hard enough where he couldn't. He was a mess. And that's when the painkillers started. That's when we started to see Klonopin and Percocet and he was pretty good at not taking them a lot. But he couldn't stop with the wine he loves, cheap Carlo Rossi. It was sitting right next to him at the dinner table. Didn't matter if he had 80 Percocets, one Percocet didn't matter, he'd take it and he'd drink his wine. Anyway, he was in a better place.

James J Piacentino: 46:07

But you made an incredibly powerful point, an incredibly powerful point. There's, the biggest word in human history that I feel is completely undervalued is the word progress. And as a human, if we cannot progress, we die Inside, outside, whatever. And when he was in that position and you nailed it, how do you get up every day when you know you can't progress? It's just self-defeating. One time I saw him buy like an on. It was on the TV.

James J Piacentino: 46:41

I was like a marketing thing and he's like he couldn't sell anything because he had, like the pension and he didn't want to script his pension. He's like he can't have a company or a business even though it was like a smile and dial type marketing thing and it was on the tv and call 1-800 for 150, we'll give you the call script. But he was like I don't know, maybe I should do that because he just didn't have any purpose. Oh, so you're really you're homing in on something about being grateful and having gratitude, which we all know we have to do, which actually is stupidly simple, but yet why most people don't sit around and think about it, myself included.

James J Piacentino: 47:18

It's challenge to stop and go. I really appreciate this. Really. How hard is that? How often do I do it? Not enough, yeah, but for him and his situation, yeah, he didn't really have much to look forward to. And it came out like and you couldn't exercise, like now we go to the gym, we run, I play ice hockey, I sweat at 51, I don't think my father studies last time he was probably 26. They're like we're smarter and we're taught a little bit better. But yeah, I think you're saying a lot of the right things in that perspective. For sure, that was a big problem for him. Progress is, I think is, the elixir to our health. Without it, it's mentally and physically. It's a huge issue if we don't have progress.

Corey Berrier: 48:14

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I agree. I listen to a lot of books, I listen to a lot of podcasts and it's not. I really don't, I don't listen. I really don't listen to anything. This sounds ridiculous, but like I don't listen to anything fun. But like I don't listen to anything fun, like I listen to things that make me think differently and conversations around health and ways to level my health up and the fitness. Or I don't listen to a ton of recovery stuff because I'm in so many meetings and I work with other guys and so on and so forth, so I'm pretty well versed there. But yeah, it's mind-boggling to me and you know how I just I can't. I'm not going to come home and like turn my television on, like I'm just not going to do it, like I'm just not going to do, it's just not. It's having zero interest.

James J Piacentino: 49:09

Yeah, and it's different now too because, like, think about it, back then you or even 20 years, 30 years, well before 2008 you would sit down in front of a tv because that was your. You could escape. Now all you do is pick this up and now you've got like a different. You can go over here for a while. I'll come back. That's good and bad, right. So I think it's a much different playing field with what you can and how you can escape.

James J Piacentino: 49:42

But do you do like when you watch things that are outside your strike zone what would it be, for example? And like, because there's learnings, but then there's also enjoyment, right, which? Or sometimes they intersect. Sometimes you have to learn things you don't want to learn, like some people have to literally sit down and go. I need to learn ai, which everyone does. It's my day job, so I'm like I'm doing it every day. But some people you need to go learn some things, and sometimes it's like, all right, I want to just go watch old ste old Steve Irving videos and hear that guitar sound and zone out a bit, and I think there's a place for that.

Corey Berrier: 50:16

I do think there's a place for that, but I also think and I talked about this before is that it also can be a dopamine trap, social media. The reason social media works is because it hits the same receptors as alcohol or food. Heaven forbid, you're doing all three of them at the same time, because that's where the likes come in and that's where the people posting and you see what other people's doing, and it's all triggers your dopamine. So if you get lost in that, that could be a real problem, and so I try not to get lost on that. I look at social media as a tool and I think you can. Either social media can use you or you can use social media and you're going to fall into one of those buckets.

Corey Berrier: 51:06

And I just choose to not fall in that bucket. But, to answer your question, what I like to listen to so one of the guys that I've listened to probably a hundred of his podcasts is called. His name is Stephen Bartlett, the diary of the CEO on. I watch him on YouTube. I'm sure he's got it on all the podcast channels but he brings on so many different people for health and fitness stuff and I don't even necessarily agree with all of them. But I tell you, what I am grateful that I've pushed myself to do is if I have a preconceived. I'm eating a carnivore diet right now. I've been eating it for three plus months and I'm having unbelievable results.

Corey Berrier: 51:51

So, he'll have somebody on and they'll be talking about how much fruits and vegetables you need to eat. So I don't turn. I want to just turn it off because it doesn't align with my current values. But I listen anyway because I want to hear what they have to say. If you've got the Republican side and the Democrat side, you really need to hear both sides. It doesn't matter what side you fall on, but if you keep an open mind, I think it gives you the ability to then form a decision. And I really like that about his podcast, because he'll bring on carnivore people, so to speak. He'll bring on keto people, he'll bring on vegetarian people, he'll bring on hormone people or peptide people or people that hate peptides, and so it's like right and it all depends on, but at least you have all the information, because if you're just listening to one side in one channel, you're not getting all the information, you're just getting what feeds your dopamine center.

James J Piacentino: 52:56

Yeah, and I'm surprised at how many people don't think like that. But many people don't, and that's that, to me, is more shocking than anything. I'm with you, I'm following the same script, but there are a lot of people that don't. When you realize that people look like us and smell like us and talk like us and they don't, you go, wow, how are you that close minded? You're really missing it. Yeah.

Corey Berrier: 53:21

Yeah, that's right.

Corey Berrier: 53:23

Great example. Look when COVID hit and I did ayahuasca back in 2020, two different times. And so I'm no stranger to psychedelics I don't do psychedelics now, but I did back then and so when COVID happened, I'm like how does what is going like? This is very clear. What's happening here? Like it's so crystal clear to me what's happening. How in the world are all these people not understanding like this is something bigger than what they're telling you it is. There's just so many things here that and so many reasons why this is not what they say it is, and I don't know where you fall on that spectrum. I'm just telling you where I'm and guess what? I was right because they proved it. It was just mind-boggling to me how so many people just took the information from the news and they went yeah, this is right, this all makes sense, and I'm like what the hell's wrong with you? It's what I wanted to say.

James J Piacentino: 54:28

Yeah, so when you were seeing through the cracks there, when you were like having that like moment of like wow, was it more from like a perspective where you were able to pull yourself out of it, or do you think it was like hey, I'm a psychedelic, supports a broader view, and it's almost like you're in a different dimension. We can go pretty deep here, but like you're in a different dimensional layer and you're seeing it from back here as opposed to like it's like disassociated. Yeah, were you seeing it from like the? Was that the psychedelic thing or was it just like you just had this like light or something? I think I just had this profound experience with the psychedelic thing, or was it just like you just had this light or something?

Corey Berrier: 55:14

I think I just had this profound experience with the psychedelics to just open they call it your third eye right, open me up to a consciousness that I didn't realize. This necessarily, I didn't realize that was probably what it was tied to. I didn't realize that was probably what it was tied to. I just knew, like you know, like I'm not all senior, all knowing, but I was just like, how is it that? How is it that so many people are not going? This is ridiculous. You're going to, you're going to ask me to wear a mask. Everywhere I go, you're breathing in the same air. Like, like what? How much sense does that make? Like, but so many people, and you had people, just, and that's that goes to the news and how the news feeds this stuff, and so I don't even know what you asked me, do I?

James J Piacentino: 56:10

think it was because of psychedelics.

James J Piacentino: 56:11

That what you're asking yeah, I think it's like perspective. Was it something that came after you did that or is it was something you just? You just saw people, people. Information comes to people. I think this whole thing you're talking about is the dimensional layers of reality are a lot more apparent than we obviously admit to, and I think there's so many things now you're seeing, also with manipulation in the news, that then I wouldn't even call it news, because social media is not really news. It's it's truths, it's lies, it's everything right. So what you believe is true is your news. Well, that doesn't mean it's true.

James J Piacentino: 56:58

We're back even before COVID and before and then before pre smartphones, if you will, you got your news from three different networks and it was like the TV, it was very linear. Now, if you had to put close your eyes and say, how did I consume news? It was like the TV, it was very linear. Now, if you had to close your eyes and say, how did I consume news? It was very linear. It was like three to four things. You'd turn the channel this way. Now your news feed is 180 things. Instagram's got 60. Facebook's got 40. Yeah, and then what's the reality is what you make up? Right, that's right, but it's actually not news anymore.

Corey Berrier: 57:36

Right, well, it also, and here's, and you'll get this, obviously, because the algorithm, like the algorithm, knows what aligns with you, and so it knows what to feed you, so it reinforces your own beliefs about this thing right right good or bad right? Good or bad.

James J Piacentino: 57:59

Yeah, and I don't even think it's like this evil thing, but it's just the way it works yeah, right and well, yeah, and I think if you bring that back home to like, okay, how does that impact everyday actions? I think what it does is it creates addiction with devices, because there's that parallel path you just mentioned which is dopamine receptors for smoking and cessation are similar to these, which is similar to cocaine, and one of the things scientifically that has come out of our work there's four, I think four, clusters of addiction genes. It's not one gene, they're clusters, there's patterns. Cocaine and sugar don't have much difference. Even though people say, oh, you're a coke addict or you're addicted to sugar, it's actually, it's all in the same class, right, and I don't want to get scientific because I don't have the chops for it, but there's no big differences, right? So then you start to throw the phones in there and this is where I think I don't know if you have kids and all that.

James J Piacentino: 59:06

But it gets complicated when you introduce children to these things and we don't know what the impact is going to be. So when I started this company, one of the things that came up early on was like well, parents, so like, can you know, identify addiction risk in humans is great. All the soccer moms are going to want it. All the sports moms and dads are going to want it. The NHL, the NFL they're going to want it. I'm like, yeah, everyone wants it, wants it, but who's what's the right market for this thing? And then, okay, I have to build the company where the market is and then we can expand so like we might be building it now to help prevent addiction related things after complications and surgery, because that's really where the highest. There's a lot of costs there, so you can really attack that from a business perspective, but there's still a lot of opportunity in kids, in pediatrics, that could use this as a tool to help them, help children. Right Now, we're not even been talking about that as a company, but there's so much dependence on devices and I think the next thing that's coming and it is really close behind Corey is you're going to have an AI personal assistant.

James J Piacentino: 1:00:22

Oh yeah. So then you're walking around every day, every day, and I think Mark Zuckerberg is onto it. He uses a little bit of glasses. It's not what these are, but the glasses you're going to. It's going to see glasses. It's not what these are, but the glasses. It's going to see everything. It's going to hear. Everything you hear. It's going to hear everything you say and it's just going to sit right there in your glasses telling you what you think you should do, and it's going to be very valuable. It's going to be just like the tools that we use now that suck us in. They're valuable. If they weren't valuable, it wouldn't suck us in. Well, that's going to happen next, and now you're going to have a personal assistant. That's going to feel pretty real and be pretty helpful, just like chat GPT. Why do I have to type on chat GPT? Why can't I just think about it or say it out loud? Well, what are you two years away from that? If you're?

Corey Berrier: 1:01:10

lucky.

James J Piacentino: 1:01:11

Yeah. So that's going to be like where I think you start to see a lot of these things shift. But addictions and those related addictions are not going to go away until they gene edit, until they start to create a genetic modification to to humans, which is probably five years away. So you can start to see what I'm doing. Whenever I say I'm doing genetics, we're 100 years behind, because in five years, when you start doing gene editing, I'm just creating data sets that could help gene editing, if that's where the world goes, but we're just scratching the surface.

James J Piacentino: 1:01:55

There's going to be so many people and problems to address in those areas that we haven't even gotten to yet. And I worry about my kids, especially my youngest daughter. I worry about her and that age group and the kids that are being born, the ones that were born that are like four or five now. That's really scary. It's really scary.

James J Piacentino: 1:02:21

So we have a role and I have a role and I step out of my body for a second and say that I know I was put here to do this. Whether it's financially rewarding, I don't know. Whether it is prestigious, who cares but this is my thing. I've had a really good run in a couple areas that have led me to this and I'm like okay, I got it, I'll take the ball. I don't know how it's hard. It's very hard, very complicated, but I'm not going to say that it's not divine. There's a divine power that's driving me to do this and I think that we're going to be able to help a lot of people outside of just this initial use case. It might take five years, four years, three years, two years, who knows? But I've got the sauce in the pot here and now I'm just going to start giving it out.

Corey Berrier: 1:03:27

Well, I think you also have. I think the most valuable thing that you have is your experience with your dad, because without that, none of this would be happening and the pain that you went through watching him and caring for him, and the fights with your mom and all the things that built this idea for you or that really helped you. I think feel enough pain throughout that process to say I need to do something about this. And that was that thing on your shoulder.

James J Piacentino: 1:04:04

Yeah, yeah, and it's not. You know what it's interesting? Because it's not. I'm going to go a little too deep with you today, my man, but when you think about your life, let me ask you a question. Okay, let's play around here for a second. Longevity Let me ask you about longevity. When I say longevity, it's a big thing. People are putting money into it. It's a big thing. There are investment managers meeting on Montauk or the Hamptons of Long Island this week, next week More money than the earth can probably ever use Sitting in meetings talking about longevity. If I ask you what's your definition of longevity mean and what value does it bring, what would you say?

Corey Berrier: 1:04:58

Just curious. Yeah, for me, longevity is moving my body, going to the gym, putting the right things in my body and, most importantly, not putting the wrong things in my body. For me, that's longevity. Okay, I'm going to ask you a series of body.

James J Piacentino: 1:05:14

For me, that's longevity. Okay, I'm going to ask you a series of questions. They're all going to be one word, it's going to be the why, okay. So I'm going to ask you Okay, why is that important?

Corey Berrier: 1:05:25

Because I believe that's the key to probably living a longer life. Okay, why would you want probably living a longer life?

James J Piacentino: 1:05:34

Okay, why would you want to live a longer life?

Corey Berrier: 1:05:39

Well, I really like life.

James J Piacentino: 1:05:43

See, it starts to get awkward and uncomfortable when you keep going. Why Okay?

Corey Berrier: 1:05:46

Yeah, no, but you could go four more layers if you want.

James J Piacentino: 1:05:49

This is intentional, right? So then you say, okay, why do you want to live longer? I don't know, everyone's gonna have a different answer like I want to be my kid longer, okay, okay. But why do? Why do you want to be your kid longer? Okay. So let's say you live 125 years old and your kid is 80, and then you have grandkids, even if you're physically capable and mentally capable. I think it's purpose.

Corey Berrier: 1:06:14

I think it drills down to purpose and impact. So if you think about 120, 80 grandkids, that's all purposeful stuff. It gives you a purpose to live to 120, to see your kids at 80 and to see the grandkids grow up and hopefully you can hopefully make an impact on the world in some way or the other.

James J Piacentino: 1:06:40

okay, so without belaboring it, because you're on a podcast, so I don't want to go too far, just before just hanging at the campfire. I would go for another 10-15 minutes on this, but I'm gonna cap it there and say when we think about longevity, we always think about our body, our flesh. We don't think about our soul, right? So the purpose of your existence on this planet, like, how did you get here? I don't want to put too much faith in the internet, but people will say and you've read this before and maybe it's even in biblical passages maybe I'm not sure your soul has chosen to come here through this vessel, this vehicle that's written in stone somewhere and if you go, okay, well, really the purpose of this vessel is to mature that soul for whatever it's going to be next. It could be a soul, could turn into an ocean wave, it could be a rainstorm, it could be a Sedona mountain that lasts a billion years or whatever. Right that energy, whatever you are, you're living to grow that energy and that energy's transferred. So when I hear about longevity, I laugh, because people always talk about themselves and their fitness and then they talk about how they wanna live longer and I'm like do you really wanna be 180 years old? Do you wanna live? How much money you gonna make? Where you getting your money from? Who you gonna to live? How much money are you going to make? Where are you getting your money from? Who are you going to be with? Longevity is like this weird 10-year game in everyone's mind but no one's talking about that. The reason for living is to take your soul, to develop that soul, to hand that soul off to whatever's next for it to come and create a better world. Because that's what we say we want to do create a better world. So when I think about longevity, I'm like okay, I'm going to throw a couple names at you. James Marshall Hendricks Jimmy Hendricks guy died at 27. His music was so extraordinarily deep and powerful and his lyrics and different things that he spoke about. He talked about astral planing and all kinds of stuff. And you go, this guy just died in 2007. His soul was done. He was like, all right, I'm ready to over here, right, the guy's carcass died and he fell and was done. But that soul moved on.

James J Piacentino: 1:09:05

Stevie Ray Vaughan is the greatest recovery story in the history of recovery of a famous person. I'm not going to say say in history of humans. Stevie ray vaughn got sober between the years like 1988, late 88 and 1990. When he died he was on stage highest level of performance in the history of his life. Guy was unfreaking, believable. If you heard him playing his last night you'd cry.

James J Piacentino: 1:09:31

He gets in a. Somebody else was supposed to go. He wanted to go early because he wanted to call his girlfriend or to-be-wife that was in New Zealand and the time zone difference was so vast. He was in Wisconsin. He gets in a helicopter, crashes into the side of a mountain because it was missed in August 27, 1990. The man couldn't have lived a better life. He was sober, helping a shit ton of people. His music was transcending souls. It was amazing and he dies Really.

James J Piacentino: 1:09:59

Now go back to your longevity conversation. What the hell does longevity mean? It means nothing. His soul had to transcend to something else. His body went away. Okay, so when you talk about longevity and we talk about longevity and longevity unless if you're a complete capitalist and you're like I don't want to create products that make people live longer because I don't want to make money, okay, that's cool, like go ahead. But longevity is not that. Longevity is taking your soul and continuing to grow it beyond this carcass for something else. So I'm going to live in my opinion to a degree or a point where I can take this and put it over there. That's going to make this reason for this existence. It goes well beyond just being here for a while and leaving my father's life.

James J Piacentino: 1:10:56

When he passed, he looked at me as he was dying and he said to me this is it? Huh. That was his last words to me. He goes this is it, huh? And I was like holy shit. We were in the hallway, it was, he was walking and my family was in the end of the hospital and he was like and we left and I went back at four in the morning and he died to his last breath. But that was like the last thing he said to me. He's like this is it? Huh? I was like what the fuck? Yeah, that's crazy. Like like he. He literally was like self-actualizing, like oh, this was a really short ride. That's unreal. I didn't really do anything. That's who felt yeah, yeah. And the way I look at it is like okay, you said it earlier, or you said you did this company because of this guy, and I'm like okay, so just like a bee, pollinates a flower and takes the honey out and dies and you get a teaspoon of honey from the entire life work of that bee. That's what he did. He was the bee. He made some honey and he died, and that honey gets transferred where else.

James J Piacentino: 1:12:07

It was to me. Now it's my job to take it and to help millions. Right, my mother suffered at the hands of him. She impacted a lot of kids in her work when she was working a lot of children, which I think was a big difference. She's made a tangible difference, but I feel like she suffered at the hands of him for this, for me to do this, right? So when I start to think about the soul and the deeper opportunity here, it's that really big opportunity. That's beyond this, right? Yeah, we feel better, look better, feel good, but longevity is in my game. Longevity is the soul, it's not my muscles, right?

Corey Berrier: 1:12:53

Oh, I'm a supplement freak, but yeah, but yeah, you're just such a great perspective. Yeah, really, I hadn't really thought about it like that, and it makes me kind of rethink, because we all have is today. Tomorrow may not come for any of us, and so I guess I have to ask myself well, what am I doing today to make sure that, if tomorrow doesn't show up, that I've put in that longevity bucket?

James J Piacentino: 1:13:26

So I'm going to challenge you on that. Okay, so you even as I could. We've had a couple of couple conversations on. I'm getting to know you and my feeling is that you've got this really long story, strength, opportunity to take guests to your show like this and start to get this out like this. This is you're like pumping blood from the heart to the arteries. Is that the right?

James J Piacentino: 1:13:59

I think, so arteries to the heart one of the two and you can give so much to people by doing that, like you said, you were working your day job and like all of that. But like, how do you take these opportunities to help others, like you're doing with in recovery, like that to me is like that's like the. You're just working on your own soul, right? You're just you're working for on your own little thing. It's not mine, it's not hers, it's not his. You're just chipping away every day making it better, right? So why would god take anybody tomorrow? Right, we're all working at this thing. We're working, we're chipping. So my perspective is like if you're not done or you don't feel done, then you're not Right Now. It's just like I'm going to get up and I'm going to keep chipping away at this thing and just making this thing better.

James J Piacentino: 1:15:02

And that could be some simple stuff. All these weird talker guys. They'll tell you just be. What do they say? Put yourself in a feeling of happiness all the time. Whatever that is Joy, be in joy all the time. Like, whatever that is joy, be in joy all the time. Then most you can. And I think that's cool because that's true and that's when good things happen to you. So, like this podcast could be one way. It could be the people you help in recovery. Whatever it is you're chipping at making your soul better. That's why your soul chose this body to come here. You beat yourself up in your body for a reason, and now that reason is to take that soul and just sharpen it up and make it better for whatever it's going to be. I always joke around. I'm like I'll probably be a fucking ocean wave Real boring, real boring. Come back as a wave. Who cares? But one little kid might be in, fucking ocean wave Real boring, real boring.

James J Piacentino: 1:15:55

Come back as a wave Like who cares, you know, but one little kid might be like in the ocean at that moment, so this is great. Or a shark may catch his bait that day, I don't know. But you've got a hell of a story and you got a hell of a like, a like, an opportunity to just like keep going, like so I, you keep going, like so I. You will be here tomorrow and you're gonna kick ass tomorrow. I would spin that thought around. Man, that's true, I don't want to be, you know, happy here. They've got so much to give, like damn you're just getting started right.

Corey Berrier: 1:16:31

A hundred percent, yeah. A hundred percent, a hundred percent yeah.

James J Piacentino: 1:16:42

And I appreciate you doing this kind of like podcast too, because it's it's not talking about surface stuff. I think you really tapped into a really good place and it's. I think it's helpful for people, whether they find value in what you said or what I'm saying. It doesn't. It's. All you can do is amplify it.

Corey Berrier: 1:16:56

So well, and also part of that's your. You have a responsibility in that, because if you weren't a good conversationalist and you weren't able to go a little bit deep with me today, this conversation would not have been near as good as it was, and I got to tell you like it. It's been one of my favorite conversations, and you may think I tell everybody that, but you can go back and listen, and I certainly don't. But this is, and I didn't really know where the conversation was going to go. I knew the product, the product line, and I think it's going for a great cause, but I didn't anticipate this. So I'm very grateful for you opening up and going here with me. I really appreciate it.

James J Piacentino: 1:17:38

Yeah, no, I've not done it before to this degree myself, but it's something I would talk to my family about and, like I said, you've got a really open heart, so I don't have any hesitation. This isn't going to upset anybody politically or upset anybody to work with us. I think it's a perspective on our lives that I believe we should all have. I'm not saying what I believe is right, but if we cap ourselves, I always come back to that Stevie Ray Vaughan story when I think about life.

James J Piacentino: 1:18:16

It's so hard for me and I've tried to people usually you grow through things. I still can't get past that how he went through a recovery of hell and was doing such great things for people and helping people in recovery like yourself, and then he was out on stage just like a lightning rod from God. And then he's gone and you go, wow, that's such a powerful statement like that god took him. Yeah, it's a powerful statement like he must have like just been, like tapping into something so strong at that moment that god was like all right, I'm moving this soul over here, that body's done. And we go, wow, I want to achieve that power and that strength and that's what I feel like we should take out of this chat is like we can all do a lot.

Corey Berrier: 1:19:11

A lot more than we think.

James J Piacentino: 1:19:13

Yeah, you've done a million micro steps to get to the great, the greatness you are now. Dude be so proud of that late lap up. I love that. I'm not inspired by you more than probably, hopefully, anybody listened to me just by what you're telling me. Yeah, it's, you've. You've accomplished something that I think is not, it's not common, it's really not common. So, thank you, I'm inspired by you as well and I'm grateful for you having me on. And, like I said, if anybody needs anything in terms of what we're doing, just to close the loop on this, we're working through hospital systems, so we don't have a direct-to-consumer application. We will, but not right now. So some people will ask me like, oh, can I get to know my risk? I'm like, well, we're working through these systems now before we get to consumers, but I can always find a way to support people if anybody's really curious.

Corey Berrier: 1:20:20

Well, if somebody did want to get a hold of you, maybe they have questions, maybe somebody that runs a hospital hears this and they go hey, I need to talk to this guy. How would they go about doing that?

James J Piacentino: 1:20:32

So emailing me directly is fine too. So it's james at thrivegeneticsai, our website's thrivegeneticsai, and then, like I said, we have a few different events we're going to be at. In the fall. There's an event in Las Vegas called Health HLTH in October, october 20th, I think We'll be buzzing around there. I don't think we're going to have a table. I'm always interested to talk to people, so I appreciate allowing us to be on the platform. Yeah, man, thank you very much, I appreciate you.

Corey Berrier: 1:21:12

Thanks so much, corey, you got it.