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Successful Life Podcast
The Successful Life Podcast, hosted by Corey Berrier, is a globally recognized show that ranks in the top 2% of podcasts worldwide. It offers expert insights tailored for contractors, focusing on business strategies, sales skills development, and the integration of artificial intelligence (AI) in the industry.
Successful Life Podcast
Ellen Rohr and Al Levi: Mastering the Art of Business Collaboration
Join us on the Successful Life Podcast to explore the realities of running a trade business with industry experts Corey Berrier, Ellen Rohr, and Al Levi. In this episode, they share their career experiences and how they became trusted consultants.
We discuss key topics such as financial literacy, collaboration, and project management. Ellen and Al offer practical advice on setting priorities, structuring teams, and using ride-alongs to build trust. They also highlight the value of customer testimonials in strengthening business relationships.
The conversation covers personal challenges, leadership, and creating a productive workplace culture. Tune in for insights you can apply to your own business. Don’t forget to subscribe, share, and leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify!
https://coreyberrier.gumroad.com/l/gqhapd
Al@7powercontractor.com
Ellen.rohr@zoomdrain.com
https://www.audible.com/pd/9-Simple-Steps-to-Sell-More-ht-Audiobook/B0D4SJYD4Q?source_code=ASSORAP0511160006&share_location=library_overflow
https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Steps-Sell-More-Stereotypes-ebook/dp/B0BRNSFYG6/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1OSB7HX6FQMHS&keywords=corey+berrier&qid=1674232549&sprefix=%2Caps%2C93&sr=8-1
https://www.linkedin.com/in/coreysalescoach/
Welcome to the Successful Life Podcast. I'm your host, corey Barrier, and I'm here with my two favorite people, ellen Rohr and Al Levy. What's up y'all how you doing Good?
Speaker 2:How about you Doing good? We got the country pretty well covered today the East Coast with you and then a little further north. When I look up, ellen's up in Utah somewhere. She's not traveling the whole world, which she does.
Speaker 3:I'm in Utah today.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm anchoring Arizona, so we're good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're good. So those that may not know who the two of you are just probably not too many people just give me a quick rundown of what you do each, and then also what your combined efforts have been in the past.
Speaker 3:You start out, you go first.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I was born in the trade, as Ellen told me one day and I was sharing a story again with Natalie, my wife, and when they were talking about nepotism and things of that nature, ellen turns to me in some meeting where we're out together and she goes. I was born with a silver spoon.
Speaker 2:And I looked at her and I go, that's true, but mine was covered with fuel oil, that's true. So I grew up in the trades very young my family's business plumbing, heating, cooling, electric on Long Island, new York for the little accent that I have left. I worked all those years. I gave my brothers three years notice which is the famous story to get all the systems in place and people in place. And then I moved out here to Arizona and then I did one-to-one consulting on my own Many times. We actually did a thing together called the Alan L Show, and as Alan was in the front of the room and I was sitting there with my writer, kim, she's going on about financials and knowing what you're talking about and I said, kim, come outside with me a minute and we go outside. And I said, kim, I just realized something. She goes what I could do, a successful operation and the patient will die if they don't do what Ellen does as well. And so that's how we got co-consulting together.
Speaker 3:And it's funny we met. Now we have different stories. We fuss all the time. This is my work husband, al, so we never remember the stories exactly the same way. But as I remember it, I sold him a membership to Contractors 2000, now Nexstar. So this is going back in the day. He's an OG and I was the salesperson. And we have a mutual friend, dan Hollihan.
Speaker 3:If you're in the Northeast or you're into hydronics, this is the guy. In fact he just received a Lifetime Achievement Award. I saw, and well-deserved. Dan Holland has brought a lot of people together in the industry and me and Al are two of those folks. And when we go out to dinner I signed him up for Service Titan, the Service Titan for Contractors 2000 for a membership. And he calls me we're going to the first super meeting together. And he calls me and he says, well, I'd like to go out to dinner and I'm like, great, that'd be nice, get to know each other a little bit. So I've sent you an agenda. There is an agenda for dinner, for coffee, for the first 15 minutes.
Speaker 3:Al is a very disciplined person and over the years, al, you've had a very good effect on me. So I appreciate so much the order, the systems, the sanity. We all believe we should wear bracelets that just say what would Al do and do what Al tells us to do. Me and all of Al's clients over the years have just decided that if he said it, it's right, so you might as well just do it. And we ended up with a really great partnership. Over the years we came in and out of each other's lives. We're best friends all the way, but professionally we chose to do some joint ventures together and a lot of the times it was working with the same clients. I would help with the financial piece and Al would do marketing operations. Vision strategy, the seven power concept Of the seven power concepts, I do one and Al does six, and it was a very fruitful.
Speaker 2:She actually does too, don't you, I do too.
Speaker 3:That's right, we share one. So I married a plumber. This is how I got into the trades. I wasn't born into it with fuel oil, but I married a plumber and that's how I got into it. And what happened to me happens to a lot of moms and a mom and pop shop situation. I got stuck with the books. I didn't like it, I was terrible at it, and all we did was lose money and fight.
Speaker 3:So, with the help of some great mentors, I figured out my asset from my elbow and started to put simple financial systems in a place like charge more than it costs, come up with a reasonable selling price, pay attention to the balance sheet and the profit loss. These simple procedures changed my life, made me a wealthy woman, and now I preach. That's really what I do, and over the years we've done it with our individual consultants and clients. We started Zoom Drain together. Al was our original investor at Zoom Drain. Thank you very much, al, for the lift. And now I'm at Service Titan with this big, broad megaphone and an opportunity to share far and wide. I love being able to visit on podcasts. Once upon a time we looked at trade magazines to get a clue and they're still relevant, but podcasts and chat, gpt and all these other ways that we can find information has really changed the game for the better, I think.
Speaker 2:It has. But, like most things, it's a double-edged sword in my opinion, and I always am so empathetic, gauri, to contractors today Because we thought we had a load of information. We had a garden hose. You guys have a fire hose of information that's just pouring at you between social media and trade groups, and there are a thousand more shows a year than what I attended and I thought I went to a lot of shows. So there's a great amount of information.
Speaker 2:And all that I share with you is if you don't have a system and obviously I advocate the seven powers for some reason it's as a building blocks, but as a filter, because otherwise you're going to hear a lot of great information. But it doesn't all fit together. And I have modernized from Frankenstein because I realized people they're out there, they don't know who Frankenstein is. So I go. It's basically a dream car. Would you, if I gave you the power to build a dream car? Would you take a four chassis, toyota engine, hyundai seats? Of course not, but we do that all day by pulling stuff from everywhere and it doesn't necessarily fit.
Speaker 2:So your charge people who are listening to this podcast is you have to know the person that I'm listening to. Are they a genius or an idiot? And that is not easy. The only way to know, though, is testimonials is really a big thing, and Ellen and I have always understood and Dan Hollihan, who literally took me by the side one time and goes hey Al, what you would have to say about how great you are is mildly interesting to me. What I really want to hear is somebody else who's like me, what they have to say about what you are and what you did and what it is, and I never forgot that lesson.
Speaker 1:Well, it's interesting that you say that, because I often see we're all in a lot of the same Facebook groups and a lot of information gets handed out and a lot of people learn from these Facebook groups, but the one question that they're not asking is they don't know well, what did this person put into the business before they started it? How did they start the business? What you know, they don't really know behind the curtain how these decisions are being. These suggestions are being given and without context. I don't know how you take the suggestions from someone that you don't know, because you don't know what they're dealing with. You don't know what you don't know. Do they start with a pile of money? Did they not start with a pile of money?
Speaker 1:Because, that's two entirely different perspectives.
Speaker 2:So you're telling me that one size advice doesn't fit everybody. I have to write that down. No, it's so true. It is so true. I will say one quick thing before I switch to Ellen is one way is, if you're in some really good, trusted groups and you pose a question, the volume of what you get and the people that are responding and the way that they're responding and Ellen has a great example is either making the light bulb brighter or the light bulb dimmer. So I'll let Ellen take it from there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I think a lesson I learned Al gives me credit for this, but I got it from Jim Abrams once upon a time, another great mentor of mine. He said the simpler you make it, the further you can take it. And I feel like, especially as I've lived a long time, been in the industry now for 40 years which is just bananas. I fight fancy all the time. It isn't a lack of information for people, it's a lack of implementation. And so, like my and my personal journey went like this First I had to figure out the money. It was like Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Until we had enough money to survive day to day and just like get a breath, there was really nothing I could do.
Speaker 3:And if you're thinking about raising your prices and all those implications and you're thinking, oh, maybe I should, I should be better before I can raise my prices, you're already better, you're already good enough and you have to raise your prices now to afford the mentor, the group, the seminar, the direct, the help you're going to need. Raise your prices to be able to choose a path and settle in on some information and then the next step so handle the money and then the next step is get stuff done, and Alan is skinny little book. Seven power lines out planning power, which is essentially write down all the things you need to do that you thought of doing. You've got ideas for, write them all down, type them out and then pick 30. You could tackle 30 in a year and then pick five no more than five and work on those.
Speaker 3:Now Gino Wickman wrote Traction, which is a little more elaborate game plan that will get you the same place. So there's more than one way to do this. But overall you need some project management process in your company, in your life, or stuff won't get done. That's why Al does agendas is because stuff happens that way. He's a planner and as a result, he's created a great life for himself and his clients and his friends. So that, I think, is the piece here is that it's probably not a lack of information. You probably have 5 million things written somewhere and this process of just and it's exhausting right Postage yeah, all that and and so getting you and your team in fact.
Speaker 3:You have a good story about how you started that at your own company. You suspected Al as you were getting your arms around things. Again, we speak from our own experience strength and hope right, and as Al's figuring out what to do at his company, you tell a good story about asking everybody on the team to bring whatever projects they were working on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and winter was our big season before we really expanded to other things, so it was a cold winter day. Come back in, I'm running through a company now of 70 people and I'm asking some people to help me with a project that needed to get done, and they're all too busy. And finally, new York absolute rage. I said, well, whatever you're working on, you just bring it into the conference room. We're all going to put it in there. So I put them all in the conference room and they start piling up papers all over the place and we start sifting through this mess of papers. Yes, people, it's 30 years ago and so we're going through it. Here's what we find out, corey, in this meeting, two people are working on the same project and neither one knew the other person was working on it. Other people thought they were working on a thing that I gave great priority to. The problem is, I don't even remember talking about it, let alone assigning it to anyone, and so, as we whittled this all down, from what she's talking about, this master project list, the top 30 down to the top five, we finally, for the first time, got on the same page, literally.
Speaker 2:Now, of course, today there's a lot of great project management and software. We used to use Trello Monday. You's a lot of great project management software. We used to use Trello Monday. You can use whatever you want. I will tell you that Ellen and I have coached clients together. One caution is yes, get the train moving, do that all out. But if you think Trello Monday any project management is going to make things actually happen, you're sadly mistaken. Thank you for shaking your head out. Yeah, because what we would insist on is get your calendar out and type it in right now, because we're going to ask about it next week and we want a progress report on it, and that is the big thing. So don't leave it just in there. It's got to be on people's calendars and there's got to be accountability.
Speaker 1:I think the implementation part is. You know, it's one of the things that I've found in my time working with people in the trades. That is the biggest chokehold. As you said, there's a million ways to skin a cat and they have all million of them and I think they just can't choose which one to focus on, and so they just don't. Maybe it was an analysis by paralysis or I think. Maybe I said that backwards, but the point is, there's so many things to focus on, you just don't do anything.
Speaker 2:It's easy. It's easy to get to a point where you just stand still. I know I have been there in my life and I just go. What? And this is going to sound more morbid than anything else, but I coach my own kids on this, when they would get overloaded. I go, there's still a moment to take out a pen and a paper, even though you can do stuff on a computer. Just list out everything you need to do today and I want you to prioritize just today. And the way I want you to prioritize is heaven forbid, the bus hits you at 10 am. What have you accomplished by 10 am? And then instantly you learn how to prioritize and this begins, this good habit begins to expand once you get these first things going and you start getting the top five to move along, top 30 to move along.
Speaker 2:Master project that Ellen and I know is the great thing is actually changes company culture, because we do reach out to the people at the company, because they're on the front lines in all these different positions to bring to us a project or a habit we need to get in place, but we put it at the top of the master project list. They don't just throw everything aside and that's part of the problems I go, I hear your podcast and I go. That's a great idea. You know what everybody. Stop what you're doing. I know what I said. Those were priorities, but today I heard Corey say this, so this is what we're doing.
Speaker 2:The next week. It's something different, it's just classic.
Speaker 3:This is what I love about you, Al, it's just true north, classic advice and systems for making your life and your business better. So a couple of things came to mind as we were visiting. So one is meetings have a bad reputation. Yeah, Because most meetings suck. The wrong people are there, they go on too long, they get derailed all of that, so nobody wants another meeting. It's almost become a joke, especially with younger people. And I get it.
Speaker 3:Paul Kelly I love him so much, who has grown the Parkinson's in Arizona. He told me you can solve any problem if you meet about it often enough with the right people. And what he means is and this works with Al's program and with EOS if someone shows up to the meeting day after day and hasn't done anything, they expose themselves. Either they need help and they're willing and don't know what to do, in which case you guys can brainstorm and figure things out, or they're unwilling or not capable of doing what's required, and that's someone who just can't stay because you can't have someone who's just going to lose on your watch. So meetings will expose whether or not there is someone who can be helped and developed at your company, or if you've got someone who's just going to be a rock in the road. So meetings are important. Another thing that you said, Corey, that I want to jump on is sometimes people don't know what to do, and there's an expression how do you eat an elephant? What's the answer?
Speaker 1:One bite at a time.
Speaker 3:The follow-up question may be well, which bite first, like? I don't want to make mistakes, I don't want to, but whatever. And the reality is it doesn't really matter which bite, just get going. So when you put your top five together, a good advice from Al was put in, an easy one. And cleaning is never bad, never bad, like if it's clean. One truck is going to be a top project and organize that one truck the way you want that truck to look. Or clean the warehouse, clean your desk I'll clean my desk. Boom, throw it all on the floor, throw it out to the parking lot, have a bonfire and then start fresh. Cleaning is always good, never bad, and when you clean, you usually discover some weird things that are going to go on your you know overall project list because you're looking, you're in it.
Speaker 2:That is a good way to identify. Why is this? What's this legacy? Who is this legacy from? Why are we continuing forward? It causes you to ask good questions.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, absolutely so so it seems the two of you get along quite well. So I have a question. So my guess is, as long as you've worked together and known each other, that it hasn't maybe always been this way.
Speaker 2:So I'd like to hear, maybe about a time when you just ready to kill each other I would say first of all, ellen and I, unconsciously, with my work wife and me being her work husband, we basically said that we'll always date and never get married. Wouldn't go married. Yeah, we're already married, but forget about that we'll always date and never get married. Wouldn't go well. Yeah, we're already married, but forget about that we are married.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're not so, but Ellen shared the story about us shooting videos, and this is back when videos were low, the only thing we fight over is the stupidest stuff.
Speaker 3:Is the stupidest stuff Like never about? Like there's a river that runs through me and Al. That is the same values, trust levels, extremely high. Al and I always tell each other the truth Like we've never had a crack in that not even a crack. But for some reason, when we shoot video maybe even today, al, I'm like okay, well, let's just riff. Okay, let's just, we're going to, we're putting out a program or we're going to go to a seminar and we're going to be on stage, so we want to do a little promo video. Well, let's just like talk about it.
Speaker 3:And Al's like we need to write out the three bullets and I don't know why it would just push my buttons Like no, I don't want why I fought, but for some reason we turn into complete kindergartners fighting over a dodge, we would spend 20 minutes arguing the format to shoot a five minute video.
Speaker 2:And now, of course, it's very funny because I have reached a point in life where I don't care enough anymore. I got a camera, let's go, yeah.
Speaker 3:But the thing is too. I think you've really settled into the 10,000 hours with your stuff. When we were younger, we were also trying to figure some things out, like what was going to work, what was going to play, how do we get the message and the point across? And I think over the years I've learned we're going to throw some seeds on stony ground. There's going to be some information that lands with somebody and they just take it and they make their life better and on those occasions it gives me and I know you, al so much satisfaction that we just go out there another day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, we've been around long enough and had enough success with our clients, which is the only measurement in my opinion and these guys went off and were able to sell their companies or bring their family in and I'm particularly sensitive to, obviously, family, because now it's on to the fourth generation. That's very big for me and so it's rewarding, but it's rewarding because of what it is for them. That is rewarding to me, but anyway, so Ellen has us do, instead of personality profiling, which is an awful name what's the motivational mapping? So we do this program Flag Pages and we said, well, we can't ask our clients to show us theirs if we're not willing to show ours. So Ellen and I take it individually and when we put it together it's a giant X.
Speaker 2:We are such an X in the background of our personality, what motivates us. But at the core, there's such a big center. If you follow what I mean, sure, but what it taught, taught me was is I have to watch my words because, like Ellen was talking about triggering and because of that, there are better words for me to choose. And sometimes we, when we did this thing and we started to laugh because we knew how to push each other button, but now we had the words to push each other's button. So Ellen is all about games, making it a game, making it fun. So I would go to Ellen, I go to working with this client and I could be working together and I just it's like scratching your eyes out, it's just awful, it's punishment.
Speaker 3:If we could only make it into a game and Ellen goes, I could do that and I knew he was influencing me One might say manipulating, but I would say influencing me to do what he wanted me to do. And then I know that with Al, one of the things Al really likes, because he tells us that when you do these personality mapping things and you know this from WhoHire Working Genius DISC there's a lot of them and they're all interesting and very valid for this reason alone, someone tells you about themselves. So now that's a respectful thing to do. Ask someone to tell you what you like and don't like and how I can better communicate with you.
Speaker 3:Al likes to be acknowledged, like if he does something and helps somebody's life gets better. Send Al a thank you note, or I would say Al thank you for, and give him a really specific piece of feedback on how what he did improve my life or someone else's. And I just do that. It's just like a way to love on you because I know that's important to you. So that is. I think over the years we've definitely developed that Some of it is to get each other to do something that we don't want to do.
Speaker 2:And the other part of it. That is true we genuinely love each other.
Speaker 2:Ellen always tells the story is that she would delegate somebody to brush her teeth if she could. Oh yeah, but what I know about Ellen is if she looks around and there's nobody there, she will pick up the toothbrush and do the work. Yeah, so that was part of coming to understand one another. And when you're at work and you're working with your spouse or other and, by the way, if you are not married to the person you're at work if you don't think that your company sees you as brother, sister, mother, father, you are way off. And I learned that lesson at 25.
Speaker 2:I'm sitting in my office at 25 years old I'm the last brother in of the three brothers and somebody walks in an employee at five o'clock so it's his own time, and he's 50 years old and proceeds to start telling me about his life and what's going on in his life and all of this other stuff. And I finish up with him and then I find my dad and I go dad, this guy walked in twice my age starts telling me all this stuff about his life and what's going on and the rest of it. So what's up with that? He goes oh, because you sit in this little corner office. They see you as a big brother or a dad and that's why they come to companies like ours rather than going to a nameless, faceless utility company. They want to have, in most cases, the kind of family they never had at home.
Speaker 2:And the truth of us is most of us coming through the trades in particular have had dysfunctional families and that if and it was really my brothers and I, this was an eye opening moment because we talked more about this. It wasn't like we went to a course and learned how to do this. We just said that we just can't be like. They're not robots, they're people, and my father would always emphasize we went to wakes when we were young as kids and hospital beds. We treated people as you'd want to be treated, but he saw them as family. Ellen always has a funny story. I tell about my dad what he became at the end of life. Ellen, do you want?
Speaker 1:me to tell it.
Speaker 3:Oh, I love Irving. Irving was one of those guys who showed up for work with a suit and tie when no one else was wearing a suit and tie. He just liked to present and he was a great communicator, an amazing relationship builder. I loved your dad so much. His job at OSI was to stand at the lease line and thank everyone for showing up. So they would walk into the yard or the building and Irving would say thanks for coming to work today, and I thought that was so interesting. And he said well, first off, they vote with their feet every day. Every day, they're making a decision as to whether or not they're going to come work for you and they don't have to. And the second thing is, this is gold, If you're listening for the one thing that could change your life, this is it.
Speaker 3:If you looked a person in the eye on Tuesday and said thanks for coming to work, and they looked you in the eye right back and said you're welcome, You're good. If on Wednesday did I say Tuesday next day, Wednesday did I say Tuesday Next day, that person doesn't meet your eye, You've got a beef. Some happened between yesterday and today and you could fix that beef If you, maybe, if you acted on it right now, maybe a third party problem, maybe someone saying something, another coworker or a a family member. So suppose you decided to go run errands together or walk around the building and pick up trash together, to do something, not sit behind the desk and make it all adversarial, but to just spend time with that person and see if you could uncover that bee and even be as as candid as yesterday you looked me in the eye and today you did not. Do we have something to clean up here today? Wouldn't you like to be talked to like that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it definitely opens up the dialogue where it doesn't go on for days, weeks, months, and then this employee is now not engaged at all and when you could have solved it with a simple conversation. And I wonder how many people God, I'm so glad you mentioned that, because that is really important and I just don't know how many people do that or realize how important that is. That's culture, right and Al, what you were talking about with the guy coming in and talking to you, the reason he wanted to work there is, you're right, because he had somebody he could talk to. And I see a lot of companies that just don't. They don't have that. There's a like, there's a barrier between the owner, or whoever the boss is, and the employees, and it just doesn't work.
Speaker 2:It just doesn't work, yeah, but they have a mission and vision statement that's a mile long on the wall. Isn't that good enough, right, yeah, so I know I'm tapping into my New York sarcasm, but I really mean that. Not what you say on the wall, it's what you do in real life, and I actually learned a lot of lessons along the way, and one of them came late to me. That expanded on what Ellen's talking about is I made it a point to pretty much see every one of my employees wherever they were in stand-up this wasn't a sit-down. We're passing in the hallway and I would ask them three questions what's going right? What's going wrong? What do I need to know right now? And as much as I was listening to what they were saying, I was much more interested in their eye contact. What was their facial expression? And I had a decision to make is this person leaving? This is my chance to save them, because I don't want that five o'clock knock, because they're already out the door, and so it really is what I taught people to do. It's a skill. You have to practice it really well so it becomes smooth.
Speaker 2:We're not trying to manipulate people, but we do want to be able to step in and really it came from my brother, richie, who was not a touchy-feely guy. He's a great guy. He'll do it and he literally gave you the shirt off his back. He and Richie and Ellen's husband, hot Rod, are like two peas in a pod. They are. He said to me one day in this course we had stupid conversations at 2 am. That's the last two texts. He looks at me and he goes well, people can have a bad day here Once in a while. They can have a bad week. They cannot have a bad month. It's up to us to find out what needs to be done, because if they can't be happy here and they can't be good, we've got to get them to where they need to go in life, which I thought really just blew me away.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because sometimes a guy like Hot Rod or a guy like Richie may seem like a hard egg to crack, but they are soft candy centers, those guys, and that's what Richie was tapping into. The word paradox comes to mind. I love the word paradox, which means that two things that seem to be mutually exclusive or at odds with each other are both true, and that is life. We live in this dual universe, and discipline and responsibility and holding to high standards. It is not at odds with love and compassion and empathy. These things can all exist, and sometimes I think that gets a little tricky. We're navigating our way. It is important to have it written on the wall and to talk about it and to demonstrate it. That helps you remember it. It's on the wall.
Speaker 2:And if it's short enough, and it's short and you Short and you Right. I used to walk around with a hundred dollar bill and I would tell an owner when I first show up and now remember they were paying me six figures over a couple of years and I would see this thing just go rolling right down the whole wall and I go, that's not yours, sorry. He said I have $100 in my pocket that says I can go pick any employee I want and they can't give me that by heart by not looking at it. But what would you do? I go. I would have 25 words or less.
Speaker 2:I said my father actually we never had a mission statement in the time, vision statement, none of that stuff. But my father's lecture to us and then to obviously everyone else was I don't care what you do all day, but the way you treat my customers. At the end of the day you better be able to look in that mirror and not feel like you have to turn away. And to this day I still resonate. I actually felt electricity as I was talking about it because it was channeling her. But that was really. How can you be confused? You know what you're supposed to do and you have to act accordingly. So that's a pretty good mission vision for me. That's so good yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people are not confused. It's a choice. If you want to serve the customer at the highest level, that's a choice, and if you don't, that's a choice. And so both of them have consequences, good and bad.
Speaker 3:And then there's housekeeping, Like as we put manuals and systems together. Those systems are designed to handle the housekeeping so that humans can do the human stuff. This is why I embrace AI. I love baked in systems. I like putting everything in service, tight and formed.
Speaker 1:I do.
Speaker 3:That's what Bob Ferrari used to call it A no-thing zone. Howard Partridge, they wash their trucks every day, even in the rain. No, thank Like, don't ask, don't talk about it. So that's what systems and procedures are for, and when you do that, then you have the mental capacity to do the things that humans can do, like to love on a customer, to notice that somebody maybe you've got a beef with a customer you have to be present enough to be able to pick up on that stuff, and if you're trying to find a screw that should have been in that bin but it wasn't, and you're just wasting all this time, you won't have that space to be a human, and that's what's great about systems and AI and all of the cool tools that we can use to handle the housekeeping.
Speaker 2:My company was always on the cutting edge of technology back then. And technology back then when my father and my uncle were in the company, was when guys were going looking for phone booths. They put in two-way radios and by the time we showed up we put Nextels in and we put cell phone. But we were always moving ahead. We computerized way before everyone else. There are so many things that you do want to automate, but you do still have to trust and verify that these things are actually being done.
Speaker 2:And there's great software now about hearing what's going on in a customer's house and how much time they spend, and all those things. I think that's excellent. Do I think it replaces the ride along? No, I don't, Because nonverbal communication is 70% of our communication. My face, my expression, whatever the pauses, all of these things that you cannot tell just by doing it. So when they come together now, Ellen is the queen of ride-alongs.
Speaker 3:I love ride-alongs. Loves me a ride-along.
Speaker 2:She loves herself a ride-along, so why don't you share what you do when you go out?
Speaker 3:Well, the first like why I started riding along was to escape the office where I felt I would be found out as not knowing anything about what I was supposed to be doing. And this started when I was the first employee at Benjamin Franklin, the functional plumber, so the employee number one. And we're going to start this franchise. We don't have a model center, we don't have a manual, we don't have anything yet. So I just started riding along. Okay, I'm going to be with him, I'm going to be with Jose today, and Jose and I'd go on some adventure. But it gave me the opportunity to ask questions like Gal, like what would you do if you were me? What are we missing? What do we ask you to do? That's a waste of time, those kinds of things. And that's where I started to realize this inevitable distance between the ivory tower managers in the office and what's actually happening out there in the field, and that's I think that every smart thing I learned was riding along and getting in. And we have processes, there's checklists. I don't check off a million things when I go on a ride along. This is a Matt Smith-ism. Number one I try and make a friend, just make a friend. You go on a ride along for someone for three hours and you elevate your relationship forever. You have fun, dog gets out, there's an adventure, whatever there's going to be, you're going to meet their family. With the pictures on the dashboard, you're going to get a chance to understand.
Speaker 3:I met Bam in Pine State and he'd been a big brother, big sister for like 12 years. A big brother he's not a big sister, he was a big brother. But of that big brother, big sister program I had no idea about that. That just made me love him so much, finding out that little thing about him. So then you become friends, which is great, and then you have a little more affinity, a little more trust, and you can say something like if I notice something that you do during this call and I think I might be able to help make life easier for you, are you open to that feedback, ask permission, like, can I give you one thing that, if I notice, might make your life a little easier, might be worth trying? And they're going to say, yeah, I guess so. I thought you were here to fire me, so this is better than that.
Speaker 2:Most people, when we worked together, thought that I was the axe murderer. It was her.
Speaker 3:Benjamin Franklin. They did call me the meat eater because when I left there was usually one less person working there. Now, it's not that I'm not a compassionate person, but when you start using systems like this, you can find if people are not a good fit and I've been fired and let go and laid off and all of that. It is not the worst thing. It is not. It's the beginning of a new chapter. Right, that's how it goes. But in any event, those conversations can help you determine if the service tech is willing and capable of change. And if you go on a ride along or two two, and then you put in sales pro something that's going to record the call in the house, then you've got some buy-in as to why you would even do that. Otherwise it can feel pretty big brother.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1:Look, I cannot agree with you more. I remember specifically riding along it was probably four years ago with a guy in vegas and, uh, he, every time I've ever ridden along with a technician, I've always come out knowing something about that technician that likely nobody else knows. And this guy was struggling with kratom. I don't know if you know what kratom it's some kind of over-the-counter stuff that's not good for you and can get you hooked. And I don't really know much about it personally, but I knew enough to understand what it was he was taking. And so he just really opened up because of the story that I told him Anybody that listens to this that I'm in recovery and I was telling him a story about when I was in Vegas and I was just completely wide open and it gave him the ability to not to open up about this thing he was struggling with and I worked with that.
Speaker 1:I never told the owner because I didn't. He wasn't putting the company at risk, he wasn't. He may have been, his mind may have been altered, but it wasn't like he was doing hard drugs and he wasn't at risk for wrecking the van and so. But I worked with that guy, I don't know 30 or 45 days. I checked in on him every day. He didn't make it, but either way, it gave me an opportunity to work with him, completely not having anything to do with the job, in hopes that maybe he would get sober. He didn't get sober, but if I'd never ridden along with that guy, I would have never found that out and would never had that opportunity.
Speaker 2:Well for me and ride along. People always ask what do you and Ellen get out of your interactions with one another? And I will tell you to this day, because it's 30 years. Every time I talk to Ellen, I walk away smarter.
Speaker 3:Oh, we love each other.
Speaker 2:But it's true Beyond the love. Yeah, we talk about questions people ask us. I feel I got better by the questions that I work with really smart people when they ask me really good questions. It made my mind open up to provide the answers or find the answers or to get to who needed to know who would be in the know for these kinds of things. So one of the things is I know too much. I know too much, and so when I would go do a ride along, I would want to like imagine I really grabbed you with the tech and just says pull aside, just watch, which is the worst thing you can possibly do. That's right. The second worst thing is to jump in the middle of a job and coach them, which I also learned not to do unless it was unsafe. Right, right, come out to the truck and we talk about it. And what I basically learned from Ellen was really two questions that it became really the bedrock of my ride alongs, which was because they know and I would turn to Ellen who's driving the truck and go, ellen, what do you think you did really great on that call and they instantly knew. And then the next question I would ask the last one I'd go is what would you do better? On the next call. And again they instantly knew, and so that was helpful.
Speaker 2:There was times where I was working up in upstate New York, I'm in the basement, we're doing a job together and ride along and he goes. I know I really need to sell stuff, but I just don't know what it is that I could sell. And I go well, just so you know, my sales system is called ethical selling, so I'm not selling anybody anything that's not in their best interest. But I know a ton and I'm not going to leave this boiler room that is eight by five. And I'm going to tell you right now that air separator is not removing air from this thing, it's in the wrong place, the wrong design, the rest of it and that this is not where the pump needs to be.
Speaker 2:And I just went around because I knew. And then I knew what I needed to ask the customer. I go do you ever hear water trickling in the middle of the night from the baseboard? She goes yes, I do. Can you fix that? I go yeah, it's an air separate. You follow what I'm saying. It came from my knowledge and Ellen reinforced that, because this is the problem of us as managers and owners we're too busy to do ride-alongs. So we have this great top tech and we think he's producing these great numbers because they're really great at sales. Ellen rode with one of the techs at one of the companies and what she found out is they weren't spectacular at sales. They were super efficient as a tech and they could do more and do it quickly and leave the customer feeling really solid about what they had done. That was their way or path forward.
Speaker 3:So does that make sense. It wasn't the words, it was the confidence that he knew, like Al was saying, knew how he could make that system better. So for those of you who are tradespeople and perhaps master technicians, like Al was when he was growing up, it is hard not to jump in. But then those moments where they blow up in the field, that's what you use as your curriculum for your class when you're in your training center and you give them a safe space to play that Now it's so relevant, right? That's what started the training center. We don't want to do that in the customer's home, but what if we did it in the safe space where the team having fun with each other, breaking each other's shoes a little bit, supporting each other and then trying out each other's troubleshooting techniques or how to hold the wrench or what even to say?
Speaker 3:Here's what I learned from ride-alongs. Not knowing any of that, this is what I've learned If it looks bad, smells bad or sounds bad, it's probably bad. And that is a simple way for someone who's not a technician to ride along and then get back in the truck and say is that green stuff coming down the side of the wall? Is that supposed to be there. That's not good, right? That looks bad, All that corrosion at the bottom, like it's going to look bad, smell bad or sound bad, and that is a good enough clue for you to have a conversation at least open up to the tech. Is there a way to do that differently? Should that be also addressed? Because, again, I think to Al's point they want to do what's right for the customer. A lot of guys don't want to oversell, but they're so often ill-serving their customers by neglecting to notice those things.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, I would say I trained up my guys. We were always on the cutting edge of what was new. So thermostatic radiator valves for those people who have hydronic heat, we had it. We practiced in our own house and really the motto that we had was a huge sales and marketing advantage, not just staffing, which is we're not coming to your house, corey, to learn our job. We're already trained and certified in our own house. But all of that came from what we used to have as our dirty little secret, which we called OTJT, which means on-the-job training, which means I'm coming to your house to learn my job and charge you for it, which is the worst way you can train. So there's really a big advantage to getting into the training center and doing this stuff and marrying the sales, the operations, technical skills in a very safe way. So by the time you get out in the field it feels a lot like rinse and repeat and it's freeing. And I will tell you one thing is a side note, because Ellen mentioned a great thing about being freed up when we put the manuals in, I had existing guys, a union shop. It wasn't like I can say all right, you guys can all leave, I'll get all these new people in, basically.
Speaker 2:I guess it was probably a couple of months in and one of the guys who I had known grew up. He was a Vietnam vet and he came into my office. He goes out. You know what the other companies call us. I go, I don't know. He goes. Well. I was at a gas station and the guy called me. He said you work for that military company and the guy's name is Joe and he looks at him up and down like this he goes. Well, I wouldn't want to be a slob like you working for a company like that. I'm pretty proud of what I am. He said we are all proud of this. We are so ready for what we're ready to do.
Speaker 1:People, just like children, need boundaries and they need rules. When they're young, it's the same difference when you have employees. The people want to understand that you know what you're doing, and if there's no rules and there's no boundaries, and if there's no processes in place, it looks like you don't know what you're doing looks like you don't know what you're doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great point, corey, because the majority of us have lied on our resume about what we can really do. So I'm talking about, if I interviewed Ellen have you ever done a brand new bathroom? What's the only answer I'll ever get in an interview Done, hundreds of them, sure, sure, whatever. I ask her, are you really good at changing out a 200-hour panel? The answer is, of course, yes. So we finally learned to do some testing and stuff. But that's not the point of this.
Speaker 2:What I realized was, once we put these manuals out, that these seasoned veterans were beginning to fill their own holes, that they were deathly afraid of. That we would find out and what? We changed the dynamic at our company, because it used to be hysterically funny to the seasoned experience guys about Ellen, you don't know that. How many years you've been doing it? You're kidding, you don't know that. And of course, ellen's never going to let us know what else she doesn't know. So we retrained ourselves as owners and managers to go whatever. You don't know, corey, is now my problem. I'm going to take you out to the training center. We're going to do it together. You're going to follow the process we're going to get you all the way through to what we call released, so that you can go off in the world and do this work and feel confident about what you do so good.
Speaker 3:Now we're just we're jumping around here. These are our favorite topics. I feel like Al and I have some topics that we come back to a lot because they've had such a powerful impact on our lives with our clients and in our own businesses. Corey, what question should you bring to the party?
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's let Corey talk.
Speaker 3:Let's let Corey ask us a question so how do you solve?
Speaker 1:how have you seen maybe it's through technology, maybe it's not how do you, how do you suggest? Or how have you seen solving that problem with the technician that gets in the house and maybe he doesn't know what the green stuff is running down the wall or he doesn't have the answer, and from my experience, they have to call the service manager if they can get them on the phone. If they can't get them on the phone, they're sitting there for an hour waiting on him. They can get them on the phone. If they can't get them on the phone, they're sitting there for an hour waiting on him, which is just one of the biggest pain points that I've found in the industry, and it's in the industry as a whole. What have you seen that in your experience?
Speaker 2:to mitigate, that or to solve that problem. I'll tell you how I solved it at our company, which was the boxwork chart, which shows all the boxes in the relationship really brought to life what my brothers and rising up through a career from apprentice, junior tech, senior tech, install field supervisor and then to service manager or on the install wing install apprentice, junior installer and up the same path on that wing that we really were offering a career, not just a job, and so that was really a big thing. Now it's easy to say that, but you have to have systems to do that, and the manuals are the bedrock of that. The org chart is the bedrock of that. And then you need to create the training center, the hands-on training center that acts like, looks like, smells, like what they're going to encounter in the field. And then the bridge between the manuals and the training center is your ability to become a better trainer Great communication skills, great technical skills and a way to present it that people are not asleep.
Speaker 2:Because for years and years when Richie and I would talk about trainers, for years and years when Richie and I would talk about trainers, we had been all over the country getting training. Yeah, and when we went out to this training, we realized pretty fast there's two types of trainers. There's people who are absolutely 100% know their stuff. The problem is they're so boring you will be asleep and so unless you can learn in your sleep, that's a problem. And then there were other trainers who were funny and charismatic and really enjoyable Until somebody asked them a question of depth and you pretty soon knew they didn't know it.
Speaker 2:So our goal became can we provide 75% to 80% of the training in-house? And then we would selectively bring in great trainers because there are great trainers out there, but we directed what training we wanted. So it wasn't just a sales class or marketing class. But once our guys touched it, once they knew it and in some cases it actually went to their home first to try it out. We had no problems with these guys selling stuff. We had problems to get them to stop selling stuff.
Speaker 1:Well, you said something really important. When they touch it, technicians are kinesthetic people, right, they need to touch it, feel it, hear it, see it, all of those things, or you're not going to pick it up.
Speaker 2:No, I can talk to you all day about, as a plumber, holding two wrenches back for tightness and what is tight, and then I could show you a video of it. But until you pick up two wrenches, it's never going to be, because there's only two ways you will ever tighten a union You'll tighten it so much you'll crack it, or you'll leave it so loose it'll leak. And that's part of the growth process that I have to get for you to be able to release you as you go along.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's so good, and to add to that, corey. So that's like that's the work, that's the digging the hole, pouring the foundation, laying up the construct of the building, and it takes them to start now. Just start now. That's why I recommend you go to 7 Power Contractor and buy whatever else is selling over there. At least start with the 7 Power Contractor book. The other piece of it too, again, that's the hard systems, then the soft systems are to keep your ears open for the language that your team members are using. For the language that your team members are using. Is it safe to tell the truth? I was at a job. I was at a shop once and there was this young kid in the warehouse and I said hi to him and I said how long have you worked here? And he said it's my first day and I'm like well, congratulations. And the next day I show up and he's not there and I said what happened to that young man in the warehouse? And they said what happened to that young man in the warehouse?
Speaker 3:And they said oh you mean spaz, like nicknames aren't funny. No, like little things like that, like the words you use. Make it safe to tell the truth. Make it safe to say I made a mistake. Or to come back to the shop and say this is how I felt when I had to sit in my truck for an hour waiting for the field supervisor. So I need training on that or we got to figure out a better way. But, like, if you make it safe for people to tell you the truth, they won't lie to you.
Speaker 2:Sometimes we cause people to lie to us, and there are some habits that really had to go away. When I was coming up, if you handed up the wrong fitting car, it was coming back in your head as fast as you handed it up, which is how you learned your pipe sizes, which you cannot do today, obviously. And then in the electrical, the seasoned guys it was particularly funny to give you a wire that you would touch that. They knew how to ground themselves, so you'd be bouncing all over the place, and so this whole rite of passage, if you will, in the trays, it was just stupidity and, to my greater sense of it, as I was doing one-to-one work, some of that, I hope, has more than vanished, at least my experience I do want to get back to. I was always the one that was driving when Ellen and I were working together and she'd be sitting in the passenger seat and as I'm driving trying to get to the airport or trying to get to with a client or whatever, and Ellen would ask me these questions. And one day'm driving trying to get to the airport, trying to get to with a client or whatever, and Ellen would ask me these questions, and one day she says when's the best time to plant an oak tree, and I'm driving, so I don't want to turn my head and I go.
Speaker 2:Ellen, I'm from New York City, we don't encounter a lot of oak trees, so why don't you just tell me? So she goes 10 years ago and today and I go. So what does that mean? She goes? You would have wished you did it 10 years ago, and if you don't do it today, 10 years will pass and you will have wished you have, and I have used that over and over again. When people ask, when should I get the org charts? When should I get the manuals? When should I get the training in? When should I? When should I? When should I? That's a really big statement in a really small dose.
Speaker 3:And yet no more than five at a time. So all of that goes on the list. Some things are going to mold there. Tell your team that's a great idea. It's going to mold there. It's on the list, I heard you. It's written down, good idea. But it's not going to move until we get something off the top five and then we pull something from the top 30. But that's why I put an easy one in there. Uniforms, cleaning the shop these are things you could upgrade and improve right away. Looks better, feels better. Get a little endorphin buzz from getting a good job done.
Speaker 2:The items used to be too big. That was a lesson that Ellen and I learned as we did because people were great at marketing.
Speaker 3:And by the end of the project, are you ever going?
Speaker 2:to stop marketing. How about if you go a direct mail, postcard campaign? We can get that done. There's a beginning and end. How about improving SEO? How about you follow what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, that gets things moving. And the reason I used to put it up on a big whiteboard and, believe it or not, a lot of the companies have not surrendered their whiteboard. It's out in the company's face.
Speaker 3:I would default to a whiteboard in a heartbeat if you're struggling with some groovy app or sitting on EOS implementation for two years Go back to a whiteboard. I mean we've grown.
Speaker 2:Massive companies got huge payoffs and they kept it to the very end. Which is on. That top five was in a public place because it was there to hold the accountability for the owners and managers. It was not how we did anything. What are we doing? Why are we doing it? What is the status? And if that board never changes, they already know what they know.
Speaker 3:Nothing's changing at this company. Do you want to hear something I learned recently from Keith Mercurio, yep? He says he doesn't love the word accountable and I'm like, well, that's a bug Did. I tell you this no, I saw it.
Speaker 2:I follow his posts a lot. I do have a funny story. When you finish up, go ahead.
Speaker 3:Okay, and I, like he said it just always means like you're in trouble, it's like you would never like take. I held him accountable today. What does it even mean? And like it just has a go to the principle, feel to it. So other words like are you going to take ownership of that? Are you going to be responsible for these activities? Are you going to do what you said you do? Those are good words, that kind of like you can hang on to, and this is where I'm getting more and more sensitive to the words we use and the impact that they have. So what's the follow-up story to that?
Speaker 2:And the funny story is I've admired Keith back to his next star day and the rest of it. So I see him at an event and I'm excited to go up and talk to him. And I go Keith, I just got to tell you it's amazing what you have done through Nextar and onto your own career. And he just stops and he looks at me and smiles. He goes you don't know our backstory, do you? I go we have a backstory. He goes yeah, I was a young apprentice at Tim Flynn's shop up in Boston and you were there, no kidding oh, yeah, I met him there too.
Speaker 3:I didn't, we didn't put it together until he went to work at Nexstar. We met him when he was 21.
Speaker 2:I know it is funny and delightful. I love Keith. He is a different individual.
Speaker 1:Isn't that funny? It is funny and delightful. Yes, I love Keith.
Speaker 3:He is a different individual Yep yeah this is a guy making a difference in people's lives. I really love him. And so, Corey, you're up. Man, what are you dying to ask out? Dying, that's a heavy word. What are you eager to ask us before we run out?
Speaker 2:Look at how Ellen is growing up in front of our very eyes.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:I know that we're getting close on time and this has been an incredible amount of information. So what? I know what's next for you, because you're in the middle of that and Al you've. I don't know if I'm supposed to say that.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I would say that I'm semi-retired, which really ticks off my wife and my brother who lives all the way across the street here in Arizona, because they don't believe that I'm any what retired. But yeah, I still do support for my programs. The two programs I have online signature operating manual system, and then that leads to the second program and we're building out more. Ellen is actually building out some more too, because we're going to make more and more of the seven power stuff, of those seven systems, more and more available.
Speaker 2:You and I have talked over the years, but really at my own company I was great at sales and marketing and the only reason I got good at the rest of this stuff, corey, is because my team blew up all my great efforts. I had to stop and learn how to get this stuff done so I could get back to what I really wanted to do, which was sales and marketing, which brings up another conversation. Driving down the road again, ellen turns to me and says what comes first, sales and marketing. And I go sales and she goes well, if you don't have the phone ringing and marketing's not happening, you're going out of business. I go, ellen, if you don't know how to sell to the one target audience or one target person, or the 10 market people that you have, where they live, how they tick and what's going to motivate them, then you are just wasting your marketing dollars and impact.
Speaker 3:That's right, isn't? That good that makes such a difference. Like so, if you had one lead, do you have a snowball's chance of solving a problem there? And what is it? Why did the customer say yes If you asked them? What made you say yes? Why did you decide to go with us? What do you like about working with us? What would you like us not to do anymore? Like that one customer would inform so much of your marketing?
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:Ellen actually made them call up one of their favorite customers that they couldn't figure it out. Yeah, you say like Mrs Farnwick we love that you only think of us. What is their favorite thing that you like about it?
Speaker 3:And let them just brag on you. Yeah, or brag on them Like how many as a customer, Corey, have you ever had someone call you and just say you know what? It was a pleasure to work with you the other day. You were nice to our team members, just shared cookies. That was above and beyond, and you didn't have to choose us. So what made you pick up the phone and call us? But love on them, Thank them for their service. You're a great customer. I don't think anyone's ever told me that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's great. I think it was so great to really crystallize their sales and marketing thing. For me, what I'm always after Corey on the sales and marketing again because of the great Dan Hollahan is there are really ultimately three types of testimonials, and you want it today more in video than just photos of the old days. It's really number one a great product or service that you provided, that they're bragging on, that saved the money, made them warmer, made them cooler, whatever that it did. The second one is I called at seven o'clock at night. I thought I'd just get a dancer machine. I didn't think anybody would show up, let alone there's a person who's warm and receptive and there's a person at my door fully trained and stocked and the rest of it Love you. And then the third one is the home run, where they brag on the product and service and you. And when people ask me, can I get enough of them? And the answer is clearly no, you can never have enough of those great testimonials.
Speaker 2:Your sales and your marketing. Both of them will be greatly improved.
Speaker 1:But the chances of getting those three things by what you said, ellen, by calling that customer and telling them what a great that is. Yeah, nobody's ever done that. I don't. Nobody's ever done that to me.
Speaker 2:I saw Ellen do it, so that was really the first time I saw it, but I was yeah, it always works, it always works, it does.
Speaker 2:I was proactive because, again, I did both service tech and I was also the big ticket salesperson I call system advisor and I realized I was running into obstacles to close the sale and things of that nature, because I was leaning on my words and then showing pictures. Nothing was really closing it like testimonials were, and so then I got really good at that asking for the testimonials, and then I said I should probably put it at the front end when I walked through the door and I go, corey, if I should be selected today, I'm truly honored. I'm going to earn your business to the point where I'm going to come back two weeks later to this job myself and check that everything that I promised was delivered to you and if, in that case, that is the case and you're truly happy, I'm going to hope that I can get a video testimonial, just like the ones I'm going to show you today. Boom, bam, yeah, boom. I closed, it Locked in.
Speaker 3:Here's a little nuance to that. This happened when I was a customer and the service tech said, like I came to clean my carpet or something, and he said we build our just the same thing. I said yes to the whatever the package is. Who knows, I don't know how much I'm spending, much I'm spending, so I say yes and he says okay, Mrs Rohr, here's what's happening. We build our business through Google five-star reviews, so my intention is to give you five-star service today. And then he adds this and if at any point you don't think I earned those five stars, you let me know and we're going to get back on track. Isn't that great?
Speaker 2:it is great I have a question, ellen is that when you were coaching guys and you did your ride-alongs and they walked out to the truck and they go and I don't think that I don't think the customer's happy and I don't think they're and you would say let's turn around and go fix this now?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. But that again, and that led to us at Zoom. That's literally why we quit doing a minimum service fee, the minimum service fee. If you don't do the job, it's just like they're not going to like it and they don't like it before you get there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm not saying you don't use it because you get before you get there. Yeah, Just like I'm not saying you don't use it because there's evidence that service Titan, that people who charge a minimum service fee actually have higher close rates Like okay, I get it, you have choices to make here.
Speaker 2:It has to be done right. I hear both of you. I hear what both of you have to say.
Speaker 3:You might try that. But if you don't do the job and you collect the $75 minimum fee, like, but what happens is the boss has not given permission to the tech to say no, it's okay, mrs Fernwick, erase these, let's just start over. And if they did and the tech just had the option and then came back and said I blew this, they needed it. They said, no, I didn't even collect the minimum. Let's role play this, like if you could create that kind of culture. Now we're off to the races.
Speaker 1:But, Al, you know, I can hear the boss right now and go well, every service tech will just give the $75 away.
Speaker 2:That's the beauty of having an Ellen Rohr on your team, where it can be built into the budget and it should be built into the budget.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just raise your prices on the original.
Speaker 2:Raise your prices and already figure it out and stop arguing I as a boss probably was the worst person to handle customer complaints because I was too invested, but I would be the one to fall on the sword. I would do the best I could and things of that nature. But I'm just going to talk about minimum service fee for a minute. When we first the great Ellen Moore came into my life in the 90s, before that we bought a motor for 30 bucks.
Speaker 2:We paid you $30 and we sold it for 100. So we thought, well, we got $40 of pure profit. Did I say any point that I was enlightened along the way? So?
Speaker 3:we do our first budget. You figured it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we got our first budget, thanks to people like Ellen. It's $150 an hour and we figure out a toilet's going to be like $400. And Richie says to me do it again. It comes out to $400. And I said, richie, not everyone's going to be our customer. That's the first thing here, and we have to do a lot more to build value than we ever did before, where you just quote prices.
Speaker 2:So, anyway, our price book comes out and we realized quickly that a minimum service fee makes sense, because if you don't like $150, as an example that we're going to give you back if you approve the work today, there's nothing in my price book that you're going to like. Better. But I said to them is that if you don't do the work or they have a question or an issue, give them the money back. We do not make budget by minimum service fees. You can always waive it, and so how I instruct companies to do that is service managers running a special this month. Yes, we normally charge $150 to come out and we give it back, but this month he's entitled us to give you no minimum service fee when we come. So if you're slowing down, that's a good way to get over it, as long as it's the truth. Oh, it's got to be the truth.
Speaker 3:It's got to be the truth, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's got to be the truth in everyone. Thank you, that's a very big plus.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because there's also again. There's that kind of like tell them I'm not here, white lie as soon as the owner isn't being square with people. Boy, is that a terrible situation. In AA it's called rigorous honesty. That's right. It's cleaning up the language, not leaving it at a maybe like that. Rigorous honesty is a high bar to maintain and it's so good for you.
Speaker 2:I was wondering when we get around to addictions and the rest of it You're outnumbered. Today, mr, I'm outnumbered, but as I told Ellen, she knows I was 50 pounds heavier than what today.
Speaker 3:We all deal with something.
Speaker 2:I was a foodaholic and I was eating my stresses, corey, because you and I have talked privately for a long time. It's socially acceptable, maybe a little bit more. Or I was a workaholic gee, is there anybody there listening who's a workaholic? I wonder, right, yeah and so yeah, there's healthy or bad, but the question you have to ask yourself sometimes is just why? I had to really ask myself why, and that was the toughest question.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what was the answer? And I want to expand on this after you tell me. Do you remember?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So when I finally got enough counseling about the why for my weight because the guy said it's not what you eat he said we all like a slice of pizza, but you're not satisfied with a slice of pizza because you're filling yourself up, you're getting yourself bigger for the challenges. You need stuff in my head that I never was. Really I wouldn't. Frankly, I never would have figured it myself. So for those of you who need help, do yourself and everyone around you a favor, because what I found out is when I got help, not only did I get healthy, but it was better for my family and the people I work with you know, I agree with that I was talking to.
Speaker 1:I don't even know. She told me her last name yesterday j Jennifer HVAC Chick Jennifer, you all I know. You all know who I'm talking about I think I do. She she does the HVAC Chick Coalition OK, on Facebook. I'm now, trust me, you definitely know who she is. For sure I know I do.
Speaker 3:I'm just not going to use rigor and honesty until we get to check and Google, yes, but now I'm intrigued by the story. I do?
Speaker 2:I'm just not. We're going to use rigorous honesty until we get to checking Google. Yes, but now I'm intrigued by the story.
Speaker 1:I know. So we had a really long conversation and the truth is, when people have an addiction we all have an addiction of some sort, some kind of some kind, and really it's trying to fill some sort of void that's not being fulfilled otherwise, whether that's from a childhood trauma, whether that's from a relationship, whether that's from not feeling good enough the list could go on and on. But really that's what it is and that's what it is for me and I think that's what it is for everybody. And addiction usually not usually addiction starts with pain, the void, and it ends with pain, with not being able to control whatever that thing is that you're filling that void with.
Speaker 3:I know it's crazy, and perhaps the greatest gift from addiction is the willingness and capacity to live in the now. Yes, at the present moment, because that's again like with food, like you can eat again later.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you can also make, as Corey said, about choices. I was in Weight Watchers for the third time and I was of course a funny one at this point. At one time I just said until I came this third time to Weight Watchers for the third time and I was of course a funny one at this point At one time I just said until I came this third time to Weight Watchers, I didn't realize there was anything in an airport other than a Cinnabon. People just fell off their chair laughing.
Speaker 3:The other thing I learned.
Speaker 2:I was lucky I had a great teacher and she says look right and look left, look behind you. Everyone that's sitting here is a perfectionist and I thought to myself I'm carrying like 40 pounds more than I should. People are bigger than me next to me Perfection. She goes yeah, you go on a diet and you make one bad decision and then you just cascade your way down because now you're not perfect anymore. That's right, I should be laughing. I was so busted.
Speaker 3:It's like you could eat a chip and not eat the whole bag. Now I think what's even? I know we're on now another topic, but I think addiction is really the journey of our times right now and it affects our business.
Speaker 2:How many?
Speaker 3:team members. Do we have to let go because they're high or their lives are falling apart? And it is? It's it's worth bringing up, that's for sure. But I think food is trickier, because with drinking or drugs you can just stop with food ellen actually said that to me.
Speaker 2:I want I said to him we went out to eat, I go, I'm I'm not going to order any alcohol and I would try to pick restaurants that didn't have bars. And she finally caught on to what I was doing she goes. If you think that whatever that is is going to stop if I had that urge, you are deadly wrong. She said it's really me that's in control of this. She goes. If anybody has a problem, it's you and I go. What do you mean by that? She goes where can we go to eat that we don't have food?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 3:Well, you have to manage food. Like one of the ways to deal with you can't really control it, but to deal with being an alcoholic is to not put yourself in a place where there is booze, like that helps. But you couldn't just say I'm not going to eat, I'm not going to eat, I'm not going out there.
Speaker 2:I'm never going out, ever.
Speaker 1:Well, and the truth is, with alcoholics like you can't say I'm just not going to drink because it just doesn't. It's the same thing as if you pass by the Cinnabon store right, you're going to stop at the's.
Speaker 3:The same thing with alcoholics until they're and you can't say I'm going to stop drinking forever. You're just saying I'm not going to do it right this second, that's right.
Speaker 2:That is something that now, and that is, I was never in the now. I was always in the past and always what is coming next? That's right. So rarely. And it was funny because in yoga class it taught me to put my knees over my ankles, my hips over my knees, my shoulders over my hips and my neck and head over my shoulders and I thought, well, that was just the posture. And then she goes this isn't about posture alone. This is about bringing you back to now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, now, I just stood up straighter.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm leaning in because I want to hear what you're saying.
Speaker 1:So, Ellen, it seems like you've had some sort of bout with addiction. I don't know if I know anything about this story.
Speaker 3:Well, I took a marriage counseling session with Hot Rod once upon a time and the rule was you couldn't drink. And I'm like, oh okay. And then it started to dawn on me like like we're two or three days into it, this is the longest I've ever gone without drinking. And then I'm reflecting on all the damage alcoholism has done to my family. Everybody has alcoholic families, don't they? And I just thought you know what? This is the train I'm on. I'm on that train and those tracks are going to I'm going to be an addict, and there is no blue light that starts flashing that says, oh, you're really close. It just doesn't work that way. So it was just this wake up moment that I thought I'm not going to drink today, but I never really said I'm not going to drink today, but I never really said I'm not going to drink forever. But that was 29 years ago, wow.
Speaker 3:And it just came down to like now, at this point, like what would be so compelling? Nothing Like at this point. It's not even in my. I know that you shouldn't take it for granted and it could always be right here, but I really don't think about it.
Speaker 2:I give you credit. That's good news. Yeah, I was 40 years old, I'd lost the weight and, for the first time in my life, I kept it off for three years. And what did I do, corey? I said to myself I'm cute, I think I got this. Yeah, yeah, and it just it was like holding down a never ending flight of stairs. Yep, you got it today, my friend. That's it, that's it All right.
Speaker 3:I know your story, corey. And then like, well, can I get high and not drink, and that's fine. Like I'm also all about harm reduction anymore and I'm certainly not judging anybody about how they live their lives. That's again one of the other blessings of just like you know what girl there's a lot to do in my own hula hoop without judging where anybody else is going to go with this.
Speaker 3:So yeah, but it's a good way to. It's a good way for me to live and just to have that one moment at a time. Effect of living life as a recovering person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really great about them now.
Speaker 3:So, since it is your show, yeah, it is your show, Since it's your show why don't you just take us home here?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know this has been great. We've talked about everything that I had no expectations today. I already knew it was going to be wonderful, but it was exactly what it was supposed to be.
Speaker 3:Well, we've been all around the world on this, but I tell you, to spend time with my boys here makes me a really happy girl, so let's do it again sometime.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. Where can people find you, ellen, and you Al?
Speaker 2:I am a seven, the number seven. Powercontractorcom is your best place to go. There's a lot of really free, good information. In my blogs I've been writing for a thousand years and there's also my programs are there.
Speaker 3:So you just toward the pages. You're going to learn something. Anyway, that's my advice. Oh, and you can find me at ellenrohrcom, e-l-l-e-n-r-o-h-rcom, and at eroar, at servicetitancom. And we're going to Australia with our world of Titans Australia event coming up.
Speaker 3:So, I'll give you the link to that it's it's designed primarily for Australian tradies. However, if you want to come to Australia, we've got a cool group of folks coming Keith Mercurio, Ishmael Valdez, Tom Howard, Catherine Elizabeth, me, the Irwins, who were the first company on Service Titan in Australia. It is going to be epic, so I'll make sure you get the link to that.
Speaker 1:I bet our friend Alan Ferguson is going to be there. Alan, Ferguson.
Speaker 3:Yes, I've reached out to him. I love Alan Ferguson, but that's a reminder, I'm going to nudge him. All right guys, You're going to nudge him. All right guys, you're going to have to look up Matt as well. Matt is like our primary supporter. All of us have been on his podcast we're promoting on the site shed. Matt is very excited about this.
Speaker 2:Matt is great.
Speaker 3:You know what? Can I ask you a question after we wrap?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay, because it just dawned on me. I have a one more thing to ask you, but it isn't relevant to the. Here's the registration page, cory. I'm going to put this up here, though, but it isn't relevant to the podcast. It's just a personal thing. Okay, even though we've been personal, yeah too late too, late too, late and it is needed.
Speaker 2:No, what were you gonna? What was the personal?
Speaker 1:thing yeah, too late, too late, too late, and it is needed. No, what were you going to? What was the personal thing? Did I miss that? I was looking at the link she's going to.
Speaker 2:she's waiting for you to stop recording so she can ask you the personal thing.
Speaker 1:Oh, got it. Oh yeah, thank you both.
Speaker 3:Or just edit this.
Speaker 1:No, I'll just, I'll stop the recording For old people.
Speaker 2:that's all folks.
Speaker 3:That's all folks.
