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Successful Life Podcast
The Successful Life Podcast, hosted by Corey Berrier, is a globally recognized show that ranks in the top 2% of podcasts worldwide. It offers expert insights tailored for contractors, focusing on business strategies, sales skills development, and the integration of artificial intelligence (AI) in the industry.
Successful Life Podcast
From Plumbing to Prosperity: Ellen Rohr's Inspirational Journey and the Power of Mentorship in the Trades Industry
Discover how Ellen Rohr transformed her life from marrying a plumber to becoming an influential leader in the trades industry. Ellen shares her vibrant journey with businesses like Benjamin Franklin Plumbing and Zoom Drain Franchising, highlighting her dedication to empowering tradespeople. With insights from business consultant Al Levy and industry expert Frank Blau, Ellen underscores the importance of mentorship and financial literacy in achieving success.
Explore the unexpected twists and turns of the drain cleaning industry through Ellen's candid reflections on financial challenges and personal dynamics. She opens up about the emotional rollercoaster of working with a spouse and transforming business hurdles into growth opportunities. Ellen’s unique story involves selling a plumbing business to its team, showcasing the power of open book management and instilling entrepreneurial ambitions within an organization.
From leveraging technology in hiring to mastering marketing strategies, Ellen offers a wealth of knowledge on optimizing operations and identifying top talent. Her enthusiasm is contagious as she discusses the role of AI in revolutionizing the hiring process, shares marketing insights inspired by figures like Dave Ramsey, and details the strength found in networking and collaboration. Listen to Ellen’s inspiring narrative and gain valuable perspectives on building successful careers and businesses in the trades.
https://www.servicetitan.com/blog/news-ellen-rohr-joins-servicetitan
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bare-bones-biz-inc.
https://www.audible.com/pd/9-Simple-Steps-to-Sell-More-ht-Audiobook/B0D4SJYD4Q?source_code=ASSORAP0511160006&share_location=library_overflow
https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Steps-Sell-More-Stereotypes-ebook/dp/B0BRNSFYG6/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1OSB7HX6FQMHS&keywords=corey+berrier&qid=1674232549&sprefix=%2Caps%2C93&sr=8-1
https://www.linkedin.com/in/coreysalescoach/
Welcome to the Successful Life Podcast. I'm your host, Corey Barrier, and I am here with the one and only Ellen Rohr. How are you?
Speaker 2:Hi, Super excited to talk to you. I think you're one of the most interesting people on the planet. I love Jonathan. We just spent some time together at Lance Bachman's roofing event and here we are.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yay.
Speaker 1:Ellen, most people know who you are, but there could be one or two out there.
Speaker 2:In our industry. I told my husband that in the ballcock replacement industry I'm a big deal.
Speaker 1:For those that may not know who you are hypothetically, let's just give a little bit of background, if you don't mind.
Speaker 2:Well, I married a plumber. I married my husband, Hot Rod, once upon a time, and that's how I got into the trades and I love trades people Corey and I were just talking. I've got our tile team and the granite guy. They're here to help me with the bathroom remodel and I just love them. I love contractors.
Speaker 2:When I met these cool guys through my husband and since then I've been through the ringer as far as being the wife of a plumber, having to figure out the financial piece of things once upon a time, and I really leveraged that experience into a great career. I've worked. I helped stand up Benjamin Franklin, the punctual plumber, once upon a time. I'm now an owner and founder of Zoom Drain Franchising and I've worked with thousands of contractors along the way. Primarily, I help people make more money, figure out where the money is, where it goes and how to make more of it. So that's been my career and right now I'm also standing up the brand ambassador program at Service Titan. So I get to shine a spotlight on cool people in the trades and I couldn't be happier about this new position. So I'm a busy girl.
Speaker 1:Well, so tell me about what does it mean? As the brand ambassador? I forgot what you just said. You just said it Brand ambassador, what did you call it? I forgot what you just said.
Speaker 2:You just said it Brand ambassador. What did you call it, the brand ambassador? Well, think of it this way Red Bull. Red Bull is to extreme sports. What service Titan can be to tradespeople.
Speaker 2:Okay, so our intention with this program is to shine a spotlight on tradespeople, from installers and technicians to call takers and dispatchers, executives, owners hopefully some diversity, because it's nice to see people who look like us out there in the world. And so I'm just in this great position to be able to brag on trades people of all stripes as a and in this brand ambassador program. So, if you're interested, reach me E-roar, e-r-o-h-r at service Titancom. So we've got some super ambassadors Lance is a super ambassador, tommy Mello is a super ambassador. We've got our core group of super ambassadors a Khadija head, catherine Pollock, carrie Kelsch, stephanie Allen a really exciting group. And I'm also looking for people who love social media, have a personality and a message, corey. They have something that they want to say and I'm interested in that. We are at Service Titan, so that's my real job. Then I've always got lots going on and I love doing podcasts. What's fun about doing a podcast with you is I get to learn a little bit more of you, about you and who hire.
Speaker 1:So thanks for the conversation You're welcome and I'm very lucky to have stuck with this for as long as I have, because it really has opened the door to talk to people like you that maybe outside of passing in a conference, or not to mention you're pulled in 7,000 different directions. I get to sit down with people like you and talk and just get to know who really who Ellen is, outside of all the things that we hear.
Speaker 2:It's the best we're going to have this time together that we wouldn't have otherwise. Podcasts are great to dive a little deeper into a topic. I listen to them all the time and I learn so much. And it's fun to be on a podcast because you get to spend some real quality time together and I have to mention your, dear friend and my dear friend Al Levy.
Speaker 1:It's fun to be on a podcast because you get to spend some real quality time together. Yes, and I have to mention your dear friend and my dear friend, al Levy. That man is just like dear to my heart.
Speaker 2:I know he's dear to your heart. Yeah, oh, isn't he best?
Speaker 1:Al's the best. Such a just an amazing human being.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad he's your friend too. He's had such an impact on my life. I quote Al at least five times a day. We laugh because there's two things about Al One. We wish he wasn't right so often. He's always right, and we should just wear bracelets that say WWAD. What would Al do? Wad? What would Al do? And just do it. So yeah, he's good Old school, not glamorous. He's a meat and potatoes operator and his stuff is solid. So I'm so glad that you're friends with him too. So, Al Levy, seven power contractor, if you're taking notes today, that's right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's one of my favorite guys. He really is. So, ellen, let's talk about so. You helped build Zoom Drain. You're part owner in the entire franchise, is that correct?
Speaker 2:Yeah, in fact Al Levy was our original investor. So Al Levy and I both of us have a long career in business consulting. We go, we boss you around a little bit, we try to listen and do as directed and give you some good counsel and then we leave like Mary Poppins. So Al and I have been in the consulting world for most of our careers and Al does operations and sales and marketing and really helps stand up a business. But the financial piece he didn't like that much. So he tapped me to come in and do that piece with some of his clients. That's how I met Tommy Mello, for instance. He was working with Alan than I was. And then one day Jim and I were, al and I were talking and we would do little business planning sessions and Al said to me okay, what do you have left in your career? What's something you really want to do? I'd had this experience with Benjamin Franklin Benjamin Franklin, the punctual plumber and I really learned to love franchising. I just didn't know anything about it before then. I liked the model. I thought there's some cool things we could do with it. I wanted to do it again. Thought there's some cool things we could do with it. I wanted to do it again and I said to Al I'd like to franchise. Maybe one of our clients will magnetize them. They're ready to franchise, we're ready to go. I didn't really want to push anybody or move them in that direction. I thought I bet this will just organically evolve. And Al said well, that's great, because I want to invest. On my list is still to be a venture capitalist and to invest in companies I believe in. So as we're talking, al's phone lights up and it's Jim Crenitty, the owner of Zoom Drain, and he says I'd like to franchise Zoom Drain. Do you think we could do it? And we're like we were just talking about you and that's really how Zoom Drain came together and that's I think like eight, nine years ago maybe that we had that first conversation and now we have about 60 locations.
Speaker 2:I got the gray hair to show for it, that's why I color my hair and and wonderful stories and successes. And it's just, I love drain cleaning. I never thought I would say that as a kid. It's funny how life turns. Go Drain cleaning. It's my favorite niche. I love the trades, but oh, drain cleaning so good, so essential and wonderful and dirty and the guys who and people who do it. I love them so much, so that's how I came together with Zoom Drain. Now, al took an exit when we got PE investors. We have a wonderful investment group, mbk Equity. I love them and now it's a different company. It looks different as you get bigger. That's what allowed me to move aside from day to day and open up the opportunity for me. I'm still involved with Zoom Drain, but I'm now responsible for the brand ambassador program at Service Titan. Thanks for asking. It feels good to brag on all my coworkers and teammates.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. Well, it sounds like Zoom Drain was pretty easy to build and probably not a lot of work.
Speaker 2:So tell me about. Are you being sarcastic?
Speaker 1:Very much, so Tell me about. I know that, looking back, you probably do remember a lot of the good times, but I'm curious and I like to ask people. There had to be some pretty dark moments in this process.
Speaker 2:The joke that the kid is digging through a pile of poop and he says there has to be a pony in there somewhere. That is 100 percent me. I am a very optimistic person and my partner, jim Crenitty, whose personality is very different from mine, like I'm really outgoing and I talk a lot, I love to visit with people, I have a lot of outward energy. He's more of an internal guy, he's very thoughtful, he's also incredibly optimistic and he says that optimism is a characteristic of a great entrepreneur and I agree that doesn't mean these horrible times haven't happened, but to me I always feel like in a bad story there's a pony in here somewhere. But man, I've been through a lot and I think some of my what's the word I want to use, resilience comes through age and having survived some things that really scared me. Now, once upon a time, I remember Hot Rod and I would lie in bed and I'd look at the ceiling and I'd say we are $500 short. If I just had $500, we'd be able to get payroll. And then it became 5,000. Looking at the ceiling, just adding up in my head middle of the night all the stuff you shouldn't do right, 5,000 and then 50,000. But that gut-wrenching I'm not going to make it moment I can still viscerally feel right now and I don't think it ever goes away. I think you get better at here it is again. Breathe through it, go for a walk, workout, take care of yourself, put it aside.
Speaker 2:This is where I think what happened in my career early is getting to a known financial position, figuring out the balance sheet and the profit loss.
Speaker 2:This was like the pivotal point in my life, in my career, because once I knew where the money was, where it's coming from, where it's going, once I got it like the scorecards nailed down then my conversations with Hot Rod the emotion went down and things got a little better. So instead of me saying we don't have enough money which he would hear as I'm not good enough, I'm not working hard enough, and we would fight Well, how much I don't know. That's where it was before. And then, once I started to get my arms around the financials, I could say, okay, here's what we're bringing in, here's what we're expending. We could raise our prices, we could do this. It seems like that was really the beginning of the beginning for me, so that's really what I built my career on. Corey was just my own personal experience of trying to handle those scare the poop out of your moments, of being an entrepreneur, being a family business or just being the one on the line for the money. Is that a good start here?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is, and so actually I was thinking I was going to ask you, and if you could go into more detail, what kind of impact, if you remember, did it have on your marriage?
Speaker 2:Oh well, for one, we just don't work together anymore. It was okay. So two, two things happened that were really important and again, that's why I wrote the books, it's why I went into the career I have is an evolution of my personal development. What happened in my life and I thought I can't be the only one dealing with this Maybe I could share what I've learned Getting a handle on the money. Back in the day we didn't have podcasts like going back 40 years. We only had trade magazines, which are still relevant. My husband devours them, him for the technical stuff. I'm always looking for the business guru in this magazine.
Speaker 2:But back in the day Frank Blau wrote an article called how Much Should a Contractor Cost? 1989, Plumbing and Mechanical Magazine. And I remember this and I read it and I understood the math. But I thought he was bananas because he suggested you should charge more than it costs. That sounds reasonable, right. But I didn't learn that. In college I learned about going right and what the market will bear and to be competitive and all this other stuff. So I wrote Frank a letter and told him that, yeah, I get the math, but that would never work for me. So I, like, did that basic reach out for help but then resist it. And he called me up and he told me where my head was and it was a.
Speaker 2:Frank Blau, the author of the magazine article, gets the letter and then calls me up and tells me that I'm an idiot and I hang up on him and like this begins this really great relationship with me and Frank. And I know you have a relationship with Nextar. Nextar was George Brazil, frank Blau and a bunch of their buddies and they got together and they created something that's still amazing and relevant today, which was a home of progressive and aggressive contractors, started with plumbers and HVAC guys and expanded. But Frank's mark is all over that organization and all the people who've gone through it. So a lot of us have have Frank to thank for kind of straightening us out. So as we got the money figured out, we made more money and it was that fast. We raised our prices, we got out of debt, we started to. It happened so fast.
Speaker 2:Once we just took the medicine, as Frank says, I felt like born again. Like how do people not know balance sheet profit loss? I didn't have a degree in business, like I was just like so on fire about it. And so I turned to my husband. Hot Rod, money buys options, right? So I turned to Hot Rod and I go okay, what do you want to do next? We're up in Park City. We could go to Salt Lake. I know where all the rich people live. Let's go take all their money. I just had this game plan and Hot Rod said to me I don't want to do any of that, I like working all by myself. I'm a technician. This business, this business thing I don't like, and that was hard. One of the things I learned there, corey, was I wanted my husband to be different, and that is not a good plan.
Speaker 1:No, so how did you?
Speaker 2:navigate. That Isn't that brutal, oh so how did you? Know that Brutal.
Speaker 1:Well, how did you know that? Because, when this is not uncommon for people in the trades, a lot of them, more than the most of people in the trades, do think a lot that way.
Speaker 2:Well, and, like you know, later on I talk to people Well, so what's your game plan here? Well, at some point my dad's going to do this and this. And I'm like, well, what if he doesn't? Well, and then like, are you waiting for your dad to die? He's only 60. Like, this is not a good plan.
Speaker 2:But that really came out of me understanding. Now I relapse on this, I tell you, I relapse, but my life goes much better when I just let my husband be, just be, and then that leaves me free and clear. But you can see too that if he would just do what I wanted him to do, if he were more interested in my plans, then we could do this, as he just wasn't. And so I wrote the books. Where did the money go? How much did I charge? And then the next two books I wrote were on business planning, and the essential business planning questions are what do you want? Why do you want that? Like what and why are great questions.
Speaker 2:And he and I did not want the same things and for different reasons. Did not want the same things and for different reasons. So this we almost split up. It's hard, and I know people who have the marriage. The business has ruined the family relationships or the marriage. We have stories like that. It is, it's a row to hoe. And so when I and Hot Rod decided that you know what, why don't we just do different things? That was probably the reason why now we've been married for 40 years, because otherwise no way. And I wouldn't work again with him no way. And it's not. He's a great person, he's probably the most self-actualized guy I know. It's just we don't have the same vision of what we want to do. I like a team, I like people, I like creativity, I like mess and making things happen that I couldn't do on my own. And he is a lone wolf. He'll be in his shop tinkering and he is well-respected, super well-regarded in his niche of this industry, in the hydronics and solar world of plumbing that niche. He's one of the top thought leaders. He's got an amazing career, but it wasn't what I wanted. And so I think just a really important responsibility that we each have is to look inward and say what is it that I really want and be willing to march in that direction.
Speaker 2:And I think some business owners I think some business owners are like hot rod. They really don't want to be there. A friend of mine, jim Mostynski, who also used to he'd be an. He was an editor or publisher at Plumbing and Mechanical. Once upon a time he said we cannibalize our team members. Now this ties in with who hire. We cannibalize them because there's nowhere to go. They're working for a company where there's no opportunity. We don't keep them busy all the time, and so they end up leaving that company. They're uneducated as far as being business owners and then they go start their own horrible business and they maybe really never would have or wanted to. So I think there's some of that too. If you really don't want to be in business for yourself, there's some pretty cool companies out there that you could work with Instead. Let me stop, because I can see you're thinking stop, because I can see you're thinking.
Speaker 1:Well, I think that a lot of people think that the old saying, the grass is greener on the other side, but they don't really realize they don't think about all of the stuff that a business owner and rightfully so. They're not supposed to think about, all the things that a business owner is to think about, starting out, because they haven't been there and they haven't done it, and so there's no handbook on all the things that go on inside of a business. It would be impossible to guess all the things that have cost you a fortune and unexpected situations. How are you? There's no handbook on how to handle that, unless you've got the right emotional intelligence. If you have the right, a lot of times it's patience, it's just being able to, you know, reset when things go sideways. That's not a skill everybody's got well.
Speaker 2:And so what happened with me and Hot Rod? This is going way back, but when we realized this? So, like, make sure the owners are on the same page. That's a good takeaway from today. And, if not, do something else. Like, don't wait for your dad or mom or kid or wife or anybody to change. Instead, maybe you could branch out on your own. Oh, I know that I can just feel the energy of that. That is super scary. However, it's okay, it will be okay.
Speaker 2:So we decide that we are going to sell the business and we start asking some other local plumbing companies around, and then our team members came to us. We had three plumbers plus Hot Rod at this little company and they came to us and they said we want to buy it. And I'm like, oh, that would be good. Now, keep in mind that when I was going through these changes with Frank and I'm raising my prices and I'm trying to figure, I am showing my team members, our team members here's the math, here's the balance sheet, here's how much we're in debt. Here's what we're trying to do. I didn't know how else to sell them on these changes. Like here you tell me like, what am I missing? And so I just started showing them the information. And then we're talking before the call.
Speaker 2:Then I read this book called the Great Game of Business by Jack Stack and I'm like, oh, this is called open book management. This is actually a thing, it's a movement. And I then pursued Jack Stack, so I called him. I did a little radio show on the internet they didn't have podcasts back then, it was called Internet Radio. I invited him, I talked to him for about an hour. I ended up moving to Springfield, missouri, which is where they're located. It was crazy and imposed myself on him. And about an hour I ended up moving to Springfield, missouri, which is where they're located. It was crazy and imposed myself on him and his team. And I absolutely love Great game of business, jack Stack, steve Baker Look these guys up.
Speaker 2:They changed my life. Now. They gave me some construct for what I was doing. So when our team members took over, they had some financial literacy training, just a little bit, but it was enough that they went into it with some education. So all these things change you From there on out. I thought I will do that every time I have an opportunity. It's what I always encourage my clients to do in my consulting business. It's what we do at Zoom Drain is let the team in on the game. One page dashboard report bring them to the party. All of that is a result of my experience with it, but I do remember we're in the middle of selling the company and it's officially the guy's company. Now we're still there.
Speaker 2:We ended up moving to Missouri and buying a farm and going middle-aged crazy and hot rod started another business. I went to work with next star, so there's all this stuff happening. But while we were still working together I remember one of the guys like turned his body and his elbow, hit a Grundfos pump and knocked it on the ground and it broke and he just went. That's $80. And I thought that only happens if you're the owner. That only happens if you're the owner that you like. Oh, you have that moment and it was a cool moment, just like yeah, I know that sucks, right. And then you start to hand over that stewardship to the new team. It was pretty exciting, but you are well served to teach your team what you're doing and to identify in your team when you're interviewing part of the overall process.
Speaker 2:Would you like to have your own business one day have you had a business of your own? What are your entrepreneurial ambitions? A business of your own, what are your entrepreneurial ambitions? Because you for those of you who've ever had someone on your team start their own business I hope you're really proud of that. Hope you're really proud of that. That's a cool thing. That's one of the great things you get to do in this country. In some countries you cannot start your own business. It's too onerous. You won't do it unless you're a relative of the president or whatever. So if that happens, that's not a lose. That could be a big win for you and them. And the other thing is could you teach them how to grow their own business and then be so interesting and creative in the development of your business that they don't want to leave? And this is what you'll see?
Speaker 2:Lance Bachman he and I did a podcast yesterday. He gives out a lot of equity early. He has a lot of equity out there. Tom Howard is very generous with equity, more aggressive than I would be, and I'm fascinated in watching this like, wow, that's super interesting. That could be a. Really. That could be a reason why they're so successful. So, in any event, teaching personal financial literacy and business literacy.
Speaker 2:Hey, one guy who's really rocked my world. What was his name? Who's the get out of debt guy? Old guy, dave Ramsey. He's been around, he's been around and I loved him and he's done a lot of good for people. However, there's a fresh voice in that space and I love him a lot. His name is Ramit Sethi, r-a-m-i-t. R-a-m-i-t. Even as a Netflix show. His book is called I Can Teach you to Be Rich. It's really good for personal finance he the man, really like him. And then for business finance. Hey, have a budgeting session. Take your team through it.
Speaker 2:How, if you were to start a business of your own, this is what you have to consider. Here's what goes into our selling prices. All of this I experienced cory, and that's what I would teach. As I learned it. I thought someone else may be interested, and then I'd see their experience. I had this lab going with the people I was working with and learning from and, like you, I'd travel the world to see a cool company. I'd just go. Can I come to your shop? Can we get on the phone? I would just go to figure it out.
Speaker 1:And I've learned a lot over the years as a result of people's generosity. I will say that's one thing I think is one of the most impressive things about this industry is most people that have done well. They don't mind showing you what they did Like they don't. I think maybe part of that's because the likeliness of you going out and duplicating it's probably not very good. But also, I think people are just really generous in our industry, more generous than any other industry I've ever seen.
Speaker 2:Well, I think there's a bit of an evolution to it, because I was noticing this In HVAC and I'm going to be a bit stereotypical right here. I believe there's a bit of a sophistication hierarchy. I think right now, really great HVAC contractors are the best marketers in the world in any industry. Like these guys, they have it dialed down. And then maybe plumbing companies and also these guys might be the same companies, and then maybe electricians are catching up, and then we have restoration, roofing, pest control, drain cleaning. Are you with me?
Speaker 2:Like, I think there are certain industries where it really that level and it's a marketing mindset. I believe that you have to communicate who you are. I think that the farther down this hierarchy you go, the more likely a business owner is to say well, everybody knows me, it's word of mouth, that's all I do, but then, as a result, they're a small company. Now again, if that's what you want, great, but if you want to grow, one of the skill sets you have to learn is marketing how to market your business and find people who know how to do that. Now, as you move up this hierarchy, the more successful you are generally, the more willing you are to share because you've had some help. You never got there by yourself. People have opened up their shop as you move up, but in some industries that are not quite as sophisticated overall stereotypically I'm not talking about individual companies, just like the group itself there is a lot more reticence to share. There's more of a I'm not going to let anybody in and see, based on really just not an understanding yet, but they'll get there.
Speaker 2:Now, the cool thing about that, corey, is I think that's where the real opportunities are In my career. I just wouldn't start an HVAC company. The field's too good, field's too good. But give me power washing, give me drain cleaning. I love drinking. That's one of the reasons I love it. You just have to be better than the average bear, and the average bear is not that great, not like some of the more sophisticated trays. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes total sense.
Speaker 2:There's so much opportunity.
Speaker 1:You just made me think of something, so I don't know how you ran this with Zoom Drain. You probably know Alan Ferguson, do you know Alan?
Speaker 2:Oh, I love Alan Ferguson.
Speaker 1:I love Alan too.
Speaker 2:I know him from Contractors 2000, 100 years ago, and we have remained friends to this day. I love him from Contractors 2000, 100 years ago yeah, and we have remained friends to this day. I love him a lot.
Speaker 1:Okay, so tell me your story. It is which is often frowned upon, I think, by people that don't understand how that works. I'll see in plumbing groups where they just will bash the daylights out of someone that's running a very cheaper drain clean or whatever. There's two things right Drain cleaning and what's the other one? Yeah? What another industry like no, you could do two separate things. When you go out to you, you could do a drain cleaning or a drain inspection. No, I don't know what I'm trying to think of, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I can't remember well I think carry on with your story about the 59, because I do have some thoughts on those yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So the idea is that you get there and it's time. You've got to count the time that you're there and if you're not counting the time and you see your guys are spending two and a half hours on a fifty nine dollar drain clean, naturally it's not going to be productive, right? So the idea is not that you're going to try to milk the customer for every dime that you can, but if you go there and you find more problems, that you have to charge for those. So yeah. So tell me your thoughts on that.
Speaker 2:I tend to change my thoughts. Okay, I'll tell you my current thoughts. Okay, fair enough. Like I'm cause, I don't think we have to. There's something to be said for changing your mind. When you have more information or you're of a different opinion, you get to get. Your value should stay pretty constant, but your tactics can move around a little bit.
Speaker 2:I am one that doesn't like the discount loss leader for drain cleaning. Now, if you do drain cleaning but you also do plumbing, you could do free drain cleaning to see what needs to be done. We could clear the drain and then your your understanding is so many drains are going to need to be replaced or repaired that this becomes your lead offering. Correct, like, I'm following right. I understand the math behind it. However, I don't love discounting the honorable work that we do. I don't like like a plastic surgeon. If I was going to have plastic surgery, I've noticed that maybe I should have a facelift. I'll probably never get around to it, but just saying like, if I were going to go to a plastic surgeon and they were doing like a two for one discount, I wouldn't use that plastic surgeon.
Speaker 1:You see where I'm going.
Speaker 2:And lawyers who do really aggressive like marketing, where you don't pay anything and we're going to get a class action suit. They don't have a great reputation there. Again, I just don't like the reflection on the industry of giving away free work. Sure, I like now what I do. We do at zoom drain is we will come and do a bid on the job and you can say no, so we don't charge anything to come and look at the job.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Right and we only give at that point our opinion and they can take the opinion and do it, do whatever. And then our responsibility is to train our team members well enough to present appropriate options and prices and have the customer say yes, now in drain cleaning. If you're doing that model right, you're going to close 92, 93% of your jobs because no one really wants to send a professional drain cleaner packing if they've got a drain problem. Like you're going to make a sale today unless you do something offensive, does that?
Speaker 1:make sense.
Speaker 2:So I think that in our industry I'm not saying this will be the way we do it forever. However, we support not doing a $29 drain thing and then explaining it's only this much and that you didn't cover that and we just don't want to make it that complicated and we want to give an opinion. You can go to a lawyer usually and get a little bit of expert advice before the clock starts ticking. Same thing with a surgeon. They might just say I'm not sure that surgery is right for you, but let's see and have a little meeting. So I really like elevating the industry in that way, but I'm okay, like if everybody's doing it one way and if it gets complicated I'm definitely going to want to go in another direction. Here's another thing that I feel like a bit of a rebel about this, but I've met more and more people on my, on my game plan. Ishmael Valdez at New Bay is one of these guys.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of work that goes into maintenance agreements. Now I liked plan service and this is different. Like at Zoom Drain, we could put together a price for a commercial property that needs the grease traps done, refreshed, cleaned out once a quarter, and here's the price to do it. It's non-emergency work. It's good for you, it's good for them, but those are real prices. Those are not discount, giveaway, loss leader prices. Planned maintenance are good sales, but a maintenance agreement as a plumber's wife, what does it include? Well, we'll wash out your water heater once a year.
Speaker 1:Well, here's what I know, no plumber does this.
Speaker 2:I don't know anyone. I don't know anyone in the trades who rinses out their water heater and as soon as you take that little valve off the bottom, it's never going to hold again. It's a problematic job and I just like it just sounds complicated. And now we have the revenue. Well, you're supposed to hold it as deferred income. And now you have to move it and service Titan can help you do that and it's fine and a lot of people have been uber successful with it.
Speaker 2:But all of that makes me go. What do we need them for? Why don't we just text them and let them know it's time to clear your drains, it's time to wash your windows. I got the idea because I've got this guy. I don't even know his name, but he will like quarterly text me and says hey, ellen, it's time to come over and wash your windows. Is Thursday, OK.
Speaker 2:And I go yes, I've never had my windows washed. I never signed anything, thanks for being a VIP. He says I'm a VIP, I didn't even know, I could not find, I could not nail this guy down in a crowd, I couldn't find him on the Internet. But I'm getting my windows cleaned all the time because he's making the barrier to service so small. He's telling me it's time for I don't have to track anybody down, right? And so now with Ishmael, he's got a thermostat, it's got your name on it, you push on, it goes to your service time. These are revolutionary things and they're breaking down the barriers between when your customer needs and wants you and when you can appear Like maybe we could take more control of that in ways that the customer will really benefit. So, anyway, I'm getting off track a little bit, but I thought you'd like that, based on the $59 drain conversation.
Speaker 2:That's where my mind goes is what can we get out of the way for?
Speaker 1:these guys? Yeah Well, I think it's convenient. So if it's convenient for me to, for me to do business with you, then I'm probably going to do business with you because it's convenient, even if you're a little bit more expensive, right?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, pop quiz. Now I have tile. Troy is my tile guy, so I needed a granite guy. What did I do to find a granite guy?
Speaker 1:I asked Troy, I didn't look.
Speaker 2:I didn't search, I just said do you have a granite guy? Oh, I have a great granite guy. That was Jared, who just showed up today. So referral marketing too. Now how easy can we make referral marketing? How can we get the cell phone numbers? Get on text threads with your referral partners, get them into service Titan, do some regular reminders. So we're helping each other out. Boy, there's a guy, a local contractor I'm going to brag on a court and Maddie Lundberg. All of their business comes from Facebook groups. The lost dog Facebook groups, the disaster relief, the Christmas somebody needs a hand Facebook group. They're just involved in their community in such a way really low touch, a really low. They're not selling, they're just being great neighbors and their referral business is bananas as a result. Isn't that sexy Love that.
Speaker 1:It is sexy. There's actually a software that I discovered on this actual topic where I could, if I go, if I'm in a Facebook group and I want to know if Ellen posts about I have a plumbing problem, that it will tell. It will shoot me an email with all your information, the post, what group it came from, and you can even reply right into the software. So can you imagine like, based on those people's business they're probably hunting through all these groups all the time, trying to it could come right to their. It's amazing, it's unbelievable.
Speaker 2:Can you share that? Can you share that?
Speaker 1:I'll figure out the name of it.
Speaker 2:I haven't used it Okay, yeah, and maybe post that too. Well, and there's another software we saw at the event the other day PinParrot. Did you see how that works?
Speaker 1:No, tell me.
Speaker 2:You know how you want your service tech. Again, like, just make it easier on the techs. We ask them to things. Okay, so it would be great if our technicians dropped a pin wherever they are and took pictures. And they're busy and we nag them and I get it. So Pin Parrot does that for you. It like finds out where they are, it pins them, it adds the pictures that they're already adding to service Titan. I really don't know the mechanics behind it, but what I know is that they're taking it out of the tech's hands, out of their responsibility, and they're doing it for them. What a lovely win right there.
Speaker 2:We asked the techs to do so much. This is where, like now they got to sell a maintenance agreement. Now we have to get the paperwork for it. They have to explain a complicated thing to the customer, like what if we just didn't do that? What if we just assume now they're in our VIP club? They're in our VIP club, they're on Marketing Pro or whatever we're using to automatically send information back to that customer? Second chance lead them all those groovy automated things to that customer. Second chance lead them all those groovy automated things, apps. Yesterday, when Lance and I were on our podcast. It was really about the importance of great people. Corey, with awesome software, right the apps, the automation, the AI, the stuff that will really leverage what good people can do. This is where we are in our development as an industry. I see you shaking your head, you love that.
Speaker 1:So we work with WhoHire, we work with all of Lance's companies, our system, and it's pretty unreal because it solves the biggest problem in the industry, which is finding good people, and there's a whole lot of streamlining around the processes and automations and it's really fascinating. I just brought on I'm the partnership director for the company and we just brought on the Elliott group. Do you know, and you should probably know Andy Elliott? I'm sure.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, I know of him. I haven't met him, but I know him when you think of that guy.
Speaker 1:you're like he's a sales trainer, right, he's a lot of things, but sales is like his thing, right. And so I've been working really closely with his team this week and putting them through this process and one of the guys just sent me a message and said I took the updated because there's a little tweaking that goes on with. Some of the guys just sent me a message and said I took the updated because there's a little tweaking. It goes on with some of the questions and not a lot of tweaking. Actually Most of it's already built out, but we tweaked his and he retook it. And for somebody that's a customer to take from their own standpoint, to take to go through the process and score an 89 on the whole thing out of 100 is pretty compelling because he knows how good he is in sales and then to have this program tell him how good he is in sales, it's pretty phenomenal. So it was really cool getting that message.
Speaker 2:So you're like, you're on the bleeding edge of this human, the human humanity. Plus technology leverages your ability to succeed.
Speaker 1:Well, yes, and so we've really taken we've taken just gobs and got like 7,500 people of real humans in the field and then utilized our technology to match that with that performance data inside of ServiceTitan or whatever field service software, and then, through AI, we can predict how well your candidate's going to do, how well the applicant's going to do in the whatever position they're you're hiring for, and so there's no possible way that a human being would ever be able to tell you the intricate information that we can tell you. I mean to be able to tell you if someone has grit or if they have humility, or you know, over a 10 minute questionnaire is, and that's just two out of the 500 things. It's ridiculous. It's like a personality test on steroids, like it's crazy.
Speaker 2:I'm really intrigued by what you're doing. So, like, you're going to let everybody know how to do a demo, or, yeah for sure, yeah, okay, yeah for sure. So, in addition to that, so so, like, in addition to getting a demo of the who hire software, yeah, for the sake of our conversation today, what is it that you've learned about hiring that most people don't know? In addition to, like, we figured it out and get the demo, what's another like tip or something that, wow, it really blew my mind when I figured this out.
Speaker 1:All right, so I'll tell you, so I'll tell you. I'm going to tell you two separate stories, to give you two different examples. So we did this whole thing with cleaning companies, right, people that clean houses, and one of the traits that came up to be the highest on the flight risk. So we can measure. We measure performance and flight risk. How long is somebody?
Speaker 2:going to stay. How long do they stay? How long do they stay?
Speaker 1:And are they going to perform once you hire them? Data completely matched up with was how sincere an applicant is would determine how quickly they're going to leave you. Now that's really strange to think about, because you would never think the sincerity of a human being would determine how quickly they're going to leave you. But the data was there. You couldn't argue with the data. Now here's a different story.
Speaker 1:We have a guy in I think he's in Tennessee, and he brought on this guy who was like I don't know. He was a Navy SEAL, he ran a Chick-fil-A. Like his resume was. Nobody would argue with this guy's resume, like there's no question he's going to excel in this position. I think it was a service manager or something like that. Well, a couple of months went by. The guy's not. The numbers are not his numbers are not matching up with his resume.
Speaker 1:And so they hired him before they brought on WhoHire, and so he gave all of his employees the WhoHire test and they were sitting on an airplane heading to somewhere and the results came back. And so the Army guy or the Navy guy, whatever he was, said yeah, let's look and see what it says. And this guy was like a 97% flight risk. And so the owner was like what's up with this? And he was like, oh, the AI is wrong. 30 days later he puts in his notice. And here's the real kicker, because he gave all of the employees the test. There was a guy on his team that he said Corey, I would never in a million years have put this guy in this service manager not in a million years, he said. But his WhoHire score was the highest of anybody that I've ever seen, and our profit went from 20% to 48% in 30 days and hasn't dropped since Now. Isn't that nuts?
Speaker 2:That is so cool, so do you recommend that you I'm assuming, yes, that you would recommend your existing team members take this to see if maybe they're in the right seat on the bus. Yeah, or there may be some as yet unidentified leaders or superstars you might have on your team already.
Speaker 1:Or unidentified flight risks.
Speaker 2:Or unidentified flight risks.
Speaker 1:Wow, your team already. Or unidentified flight risks, or unidentified flight risks. Think about how much damage a technician does when he's got one foot out the door he's looking for another job. He's half-assing his job every day. He's not giving you good customer service. He's certainly not charging what he's supposed to be charging because he doesn't care. How much money does that cost? Well, I'll tell you. Here's the numbers. To replace that guy is about half of his salary, so just pretend it's $100,000 he's making. It's going to cost you about $50,000 in training, customer loss, all of those things to replace that guy. Now imagine you do that 10 times a year. That's a half a million dollars. And here's the problem On the balance sheet every year there's no place for turnover. So it's like one of these numbers that are it's a massive hole that you don't see on the balance sheet. So it's really hard to track. But we've tracked it, but we know.
Speaker 2:This is so good. Well, you've got me intrigued. All right, I want to see the demo too for companies I'm working with, and I'll rattle some interest at Zoom Drain too. Now, this is really cool and I love Jonathan so much, I love you, you. I'm so glad we had a chance to connect and actually I talked to christy dear, whom I know you christina, christina, christina oops, I knew I was gonna be here whom I adore, yes and I was telling her I'm like we really need to talk to your dad.
Speaker 1:I'm like I really need to talk to your dad. I'm like I really need to talk to your dad because, like he and she's like he's not your guy. I could put you in front of the person that you need to talk to, but he's probably not going to be your guy. So I am going to talk with them at some point and maybe that could be something you could introduce me to. Okay.
Speaker 2:I'm good, I'll put you on my end here. Well.
Speaker 1:Well, I know we're getting short on time but I and thank you for asking I enjoyed this so much.
Speaker 2:If someone bails on you at the last minute, you call me and I give you my text and my phone number. So you call me and I'll come on, I'll be your, I'll be your go-to fill in person.
Speaker 1:You're the best. I really want to have you an out on actually.
Speaker 2:Oh, we will. We love it and we'll probably argue It'll be a fantastic show. We're like an old married couple. He's my work husband.
Speaker 1:I love it. So, ellen, if somebody wants to reach out to you, where would they go?
Speaker 2:L. Let's use my Service Titan email address. It's the best E-R-O-H-R at servicetitancom. Yes, stay in touch. Let me know if you're interested in our brand ambassador program. And hey, I know cool people like Corey. If I can't help you out with something, I think I could connect you. So thanks, corey, let me know when this comes out and I'll help you spread the word.
Speaker 1:Thank you, dear, I appreciate you.
Speaker 2:You too too, love and say hi to Jonathan, thank you.
