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Successful Life Podcast
The Successful Life Podcast, hosted by Corey Berrier, is a globally recognized show that ranks in the top 2% of podcasts worldwide. It offers expert insights tailored for contractors, focusing on business strategies, sales skills development, and the integration of artificial intelligence (AI) in the industry.
Successful Life Podcast
Navigating HVAC Transitions: Carl Ippoliti on Refrigerant Shifts, Sales Mastery, and Personal Growth
Carl Ippoliti, a veteran of the HVAC industry with half a century of expertise, joins us to shed light on the complex refrigerant transitions looming in 2025. As the industry shifts from R410 to environmentally friendlier alternatives like R32 and R454, Carl unpacks the historical context and ramifications for both homeowners and contractors. Expect to gain a deeper understanding of the challenges this transition presents, including rising costs and the imperative need for technician training to safely handle these slightly flammable substances.
Ever wondered how identifying personality types can revolutionize your sales technique? Drawing insights from "Versatile Selling" by Wilson Learning, we explore how recognizing and adapting to different social styles can forge stronger, more trustworthy relationships. Whether dealing with analytical, amiable, driver, or expressive types, we discuss strategies that align with each, ensuring your approach resonates with your audience. Carl and I dissect the dynamics of selling and buying, offering practical advice on reading personality signals and adjusting your sales strategy accordingly.
As we navigate the intricacies of HVAC efficiency and the shifting landscape of gas standards, this episode also offers guidance on making informed investment decisions in HVAC systems. We highlight the significance of understanding long-term energy savings, rebates, and tax credits. Wrapping up, the conversation touches on self-improvement inspired by "Atomic Habits," emphasizing that personal growth and self-care are the bedrock of supporting others. With warmth and anticipation, we express our gratitude for your time and extend heartfelt holiday greetings as we look forward to future engagements.
https://www.peirce.com/
https://www.audible.com/pd/9-Simple-Steps-to-Sell-More-ht-Audiobook/B0D4SJYD4Q?source_code=ASSORAP0511160006&share_location=library_overflow
https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Steps-Sell-More-Stereotypes-ebook/dp/B0BRNSFYG6/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1OSB7HX6FQMHS&keywords=corey+berrier&qid=1674232549&sprefix=%2Caps%2C93&sr=8-1
https://www.linkedin.com/in/coreysalescoach/
Welcome to the Successful Life Podcast. I'm your host, corey Barrier, and I'm here with our man, carl Ippoliti. I messed it up, didn't I Damn it? All right? Well, help me out here, ippoliti, ippoliti, god dang it. There you go. Well, don't feel bad, carl, I F up Smith sometimes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a very common name from my homeland, yeah, which is where I'm a US citizen, but my family origin is obviously Italian. So there you go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, makes sense. How's it going, my man?
Speaker 2:You know how it's going. I'm supposed to ask you that how are you?
Speaker 1:doing today? I'm doing magnificent.
Speaker 2:Unbelievable man.
Speaker 1:I'm going to steal the thunder.
Speaker 2:Don't lie to me, man. In the middle of that word is the word lie. So let's try it again. I'm going to ask you how you're doing Unbelievable, yeah. So let's be upbeat because you can answer it to me in the down, down and Debbie downer way. How are you doing today? Oh, unbelievable. We all know what that is. I'm doing unbelievable.
Speaker 1:Unbelievable, love it, and it's interesting that you mentioned that. And I and I do want you to tell everybody those that may not know who you are and what you do, but that downward inflection is important. When you're discussing anything, I don't care if it's with your wife or your child or a customer or a future customer, just to that perfect example unbelievable or unbelievable, it's the same exact word, but two different tonality. For sure, inflection means a lot 100%, 100%, carl, yeah, give us a quick rundown, a little bit about who you are and what you do and all that good stuff.
Speaker 2:Okay, bit about who you are and what you do and all that good stuff. Okay, so I've been in the HVAC industry for over 50 years and, corey, this is when you say, damn, you don't look that old. Yeah, 51 years, 52 years in the HVAC business from the contractor side and the last 33 years from distribution at Pierce Phelps or Wasco on distributor of carrier and Bryant and a lot of other things, and I'm the director of sales and marketing for the residential division. So I've seen a lot in this industry and I got a lot of experience and some stories.
Speaker 1:I bet you do, I bet you do, I bet you do. So I must ask. We are quickly approaching 2025, which is going to be a very different year for our HVAC contractors. Can you dive into a little bit about the refrigerant change and what either one? What can people expect and correct me if I'm wrong, but my research shows that prices are not going down. No, they're not.
Speaker 2:Let me just try to do this quickly. Back in 1997, there was the Montreal Protocol that said that the industry not just the HVAC industry but automobiles as well had to change the refrigerant in the systems because the refrigerant was harmful to the ozone and that was like using R22, that's a refrigerant. So the industry had to change to a non-ozone destroying refrigerant, which they did. It was R410 and Carrier trademarked it as Puron. The nice thing about it that transition was it was a gradual transition over a period of time, like from 1997 to 2020, before R22 was no longer allowed to be made. So that was good, that slow transition. There was still R22 available and it made it easy.
Speaker 2:This transition is a hard one. So we healed the ozone with the new refrigerant back then. So now what we did was we caused global warming because the ozone is now healed. So there's refrigerants the R410 refrigerant, which is what everybody uses, and the residential and commercial side of equipment. The industry came back with a minimum global warming potentiality that refrigerant can have and all kinds of science and formulas, and it has to be lower than 750.
Speaker 2:Effective January 1st, two different refrigerants have come out R32 and R454. R32 is being manufactured and made for one brand and they go by three names and the rest of the industry is going with R454. And at Cary and Bryant we're calling it Puron Advance. The global warming potentiality of the one is slightly below the 750. And the Puron Advance and the R454 is significantly lower than the 750. It's like around 450.
Speaker 2:It settles in at and this transition is a hard stop, like manufacturers can't make any more and if it's made before the end of this year it can still be installed. But manufacturing has to stop right now making it at the end of the year. So there's going to be a transition where homeowners are going to be thinking about what do I put in? R410 units that are made before the end of the year can still be installed. Those are going to work. There's going to be R410 available. The refrigerant Not sure of the cost, of what's going to happen to the cost of it when you have a leak. And then the R454 and the R32, you can bet your bottom dollar that the price is going to go up. So at some point probably around March, april, may you're going to see most distributors and most brands are going to be flipping the switch to the new refrigerant.
Speaker 1:That makes sense. I thank you for explaining that. I shouldn't say it makes sense. What kind of impact? Because there's got to be a massive training in developing technicians in a process like this. A lot of companies are running. A lot of companies don't even do training for whatever reason. But what happens to those guys and how much training are you seeing that's going to have to go into these technicians to get them up to speed with this?
Speaker 2:It's not a lot. This new refrigerant is I'm going to do the bunny ear thing here the quotes that this new refrigerant is slightly flammable and there needs to be sensors on the evaporator coils that would sense if any of that refrigerant has leaked into the house and it'll kill the system, turn it off. So there's sensors that need to be put in the coils. Storage is a little different now for contractors because of the slight flammability. So the irony of that whole thing is, you know, people are like oh, it's flammable. If you have a gas furnace it is flammable and it's a hell of a lot more flammable than the refrigerant, and same thing with LP gas and even oil, if you want to think about it. So there's going to be some training. There are going to be some storage issues. As far as installation, it's not that much of a big deal. You have to put the sensor in if it's not already installed. It's not that much of a big deal in my opinion, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I imagine just the talk track around it too is going to be important for technicians to be able to explain the difference in the two. Track around it too is going to be important for for technicians to be able to explain the difference in the two and why it's changing, and all that good stuff which also fall into that training category yeah, there's some new tool, new tools that'll be needed, but okay, it's refrigerant yeah, yeah, makes sense.
Speaker 1:All right, one of the things that I really wanted you to talk about today. I don't know if you mentioned this when we got, when we started, but you have you hold a Franklin Covey license. Did I say that right?
Speaker 2:I'm certified, instead of having highly effective people, I really it really helped save my life and turn my career around. I went from probably being a villain in my life to turning out to be a very good person, and the seven habits of highly effective people is what did that for me. And there's other courses that I've taken and there's other learning things I've done and books I've read about how to deal with different personality types. It's really important not only for you to understand your personality type, but to understand your family, your loved ones, your friends, the teammates around you for work, and also from the customer's point of view when you're selling to a customer, and also from the customer's point of view when you're selling to a customer, not only should you understand your personality, you need to be able to identify the person that you're having an interaction with, their personality type. That goes a long way because, when it comes down to it, especially in the HVAC or home services, we've all bought something from somebody that we didn't like, right. Yes, unfortunately, but we do like to buy from people we like right. We do like to buy from people we like. So there's no denying that, and there's a science behind seeing the way a personality is, and you've got to know your personality right. So the question is who are you? And in home sales, what is your customer like? What are they like? So years ago I read this book Versatile Selling by Wilson Learning, and I learned a lot from that book. People love to buy, right, they love to buy. They do. They just hate being sold. So this book did a study about 2 million people in 40 years and they did all kinds of research and they learned that one out of four people has a social style or a comfort zone or behavior. So what that means is roughly 25% of the people are like you and 75% of the people are not like you. And why. I'll ask you why you think that's important. You got to determine your style. You got to learn to read the other person's style. You need to adapt your style to the customer and then that creates trust, because the customer then feels comfortable and they're more apt to buy from you. So let's take it why this happens and how quickly it happens. It's all primitive man. It's all primitive Human beings are wired. We're wired to survive, right? We're wired to respond. It all goes back to the threat when we were facing that saber-toothed tiger. So the hypothalamus in the brain kicks in and it says I'm either going to fight you, I'm going to run from you, or I'm just going to freeze. So that's what's taking place. When you get into that survival mode, you say to yourself is this person a threat, a friend, are they like me, are they not like me? The minute that starts happening, art rate flutters, breathing gets a little heavier, adrenaline kicks in, right. So let's talk about it from the customer's point of view. So, customers, it's all about comfort and trust Right In the beginning of the sales process, or any relationship for that matter.
Speaker 2:They don't disclose too much in the beginning of the relationship, right, they just don't. And then what happens next is you can see their behavior when you're interacting with somebody, but you'll never really understand what they're feeling or thinking. So there's the next problem you have to face. Now this is where it gets really crazy. So there's a dimension of asserting yourself, and I'm going to call this the selling dimension and there's the other dimension of the responsive dimension, that's the buying dimension.
Speaker 2:In the beginning of a sales process, there's tension. There's tension Got to make sure you're doing the right purchase with the right person. So at the beginning of the sales call there is relationship tension. It's guarded, it's primal right. The customer may not trust you, but in reality they just don't know you. So in the beginning there's a fear factor. So let's talk about the selling dimension or the asserting dimension, and there's two types. There's the person that asks questions when you're in a selling mode, or tell. So there's ask seller and a tell seller, and nothing's wrong with either one of them. I want to be really clear about that. The issue is if you are one of those types, you could be offending two out of four buyers with your personality type. So you may want to ask yourself well, how do I know what these personality types are if I'm a seller? Here you go. I'm going to ask you, corey, raise your hand every time you hit on one of these. Do you see yourself as speaking deliberately and pausing much.
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, do you see yourself?
Speaker 1:seldom interrupting others. I'll answer that two ways. I used to be that way, but I have worked really hard to not do that.
Speaker 2:Okay. Do you use voice for inflection? I do. Do you make conditional statements?
Speaker 1:As an example. If this, I'll do that yes.
Speaker 2:I try not to Do you bleed back when you're talking with people.
Speaker 1:I do because I think it's more comforting.
Speaker 2:Okay. So if you were a selling mode, asserting yourself on someone, right now you're telling me that you're an analytical or an amiable. Okay, there's two personality types that you could be making uncomfortable because you're that type of person. Now let's ask another style Are you when you're asserting yourself and when you're that type of person? Now let's ask another style Are you, when you're asserting yourself and when you're selling? You speak quickly and firmly? I try not to. Okay, Do you interrupt others?
Speaker 1:I absolutely try not to do that.
Speaker 2:Do you often use your voice for emphasis, like inflection?
Speaker 1:I do.
Speaker 2:Do you lean forward when you're in the sales process?
Speaker 1:Sometimes, sometimes I lean forward, sometimes I lean back. It depends on what part of the sales process.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's fair. So if you're one of those types, you're a driver, expressive Okay, so the driver expressive when they're selling with their style that they sell and they're trying to sell to an analytical or an amiable, there's going to be uncomfort. If you're an analytical or an amiable seller and you're selling to somebody that happens to be a driver or an expressive, you're going to make them feel uncomfortable. So let's talk about how we see people when they're being sold or the response they give you. There's two types. There's the task response they give you. There's two types. There's the task. This means they're going to give you a task and it tells you what personality type they are. And then there's the people. So there's a task type and there's a people type.
Speaker 2:Realize that if you are one of these types and now I'm going to ask you, corey, you're now in the selling mode with me, right, raise your hand. If you are one of these types, and now I'm going to ask you, corey, you're now in the selling mode with me, right, raise your hand. If you're one of these, do you talk when someone's trying to sell you, corey? Do you ask for? Do you give that person a task or do you ask for a lot of facts. You're the buyer, I'm selling you and you're going to respond to me, are you?
Speaker 1:going to give me a task or are you looking for a lot of facts? I'm looking for more facts.
Speaker 2:I would say Do you use minimal body gestures to me? I'm selling you now.
Speaker 1:I would say minimum, because I don't want you to, I don't want you, I don't want to show my hand.
Speaker 2:Okay, do you show like a narrow range of emotions and feelings when someone's trying to sell you something?
Speaker 1:Narrow yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, and you probably use minimal facial expressions, right? Your face doesn't really reveal anything. I hope not Okay. Anything, I hope not OK. So if you're giving me that read and I'm selling you, you're telling me you're an analytical slash driver, one or the other. So if I recognize that I'm trying to assert myself on to you to buy something from me and I'm an amiable or I'm an expressive, I got to tone it down. I have to adapt my style. So I'm not amiable or I'm an expressive. I got to tone it down. I have to adapt my style so I'm not making you uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:So there's that task oriented person that's selling and then there's the task oriented person that's buying. So we're talking about the buyers now, right? So let's talk about the buyer. That's people oriented. They talk about other people a lot, right, oh, you know so and so, oh, you did the job down the street, right? So if you're in the buying mode and you use big body, expansive posturing and gesturing, like I am right now, and you show a broad range of feeling, or you use varied and a lot of facial expressions when you're being sold, I'm picking up on that you and I'm trying to sell you something and you're giving me that vibe.
Speaker 1:You're definitely an amiable or an expressive, so you got to figure out what style are you right?
Speaker 2:You got to figure out what style are you and then you got to figure out what style is the buyer. So let's get in the roots Ready. You told me who you were. I knew you were the first time you and I talked. So let's talk about who is an analytical. That's someone that focuses on the facts and logic. They act when there is a payoff and they know it. They don't commit too early, Right, they speak slow. They have an indifferent handshake. They ask a lot of questions. They lean backwards. They're serious, logical, systematic and thorough. That is 100% an analytical person. Like an engineer as an example. Correct, Okay Now. Do you recall the movie Full Metal Jacket? Oh yeah, Do you remember the drill sergeant?
Speaker 2:Yes 100 percent a driver.
Speaker 2:Without a doubt. They focus on results, they take charge, they make quick decisions, they like to be challenged, independent, candid, decisive, practical. They speak fast, they seek control of the call, they're opinionated and they're impatient. So if you're dealing with somebody like that on a sales call, be prepared. Here's why I'll give you an example the driver personality. If you see their driver personality, you better give them options, you better give them choices and you better give them more than three. So I have to be careful here. This is for demonstration purposes only. This is not to be seen as a gesture that I'm doing on a video podcast. The driver personality does not like to be sold. The driver personality likes to be the one making the decision. So generally in our industry, we show three choices.
Speaker 1:Three Good, better best.
Speaker 2:Good, better, best. So a driver who's one out of four buyers. If you do this to a driver personality one out of four and you do this to them, you've lost them. So now you're already behind the eight ball with trying to make a sale because you've already made somebody not like you and not realize you're doing it. So an HVAC or any home supply or service that we don't know what we're buying and there's three choices. We're going to probably throw out the least expensive and then we're probably going to throw out the most expensive because we don't know really what we're getting. So we're going to sell somewhere in the middle. So for those that aren't seeing the visual, you can imagine what's happening with my three fingers. That's what the driver now says. The driver says you're making me pick the one in the middle and I'm not picking that because I'm in charge. That's why you gotta do four four feels boxed in right.
Speaker 1:Is that what you say? He feels like you're boxing him into that one decision. Because, yeah, that makes sense correct.
Speaker 2:So four choices all the time. The least expensive is thrown out by the driver, the most expensive is thrown out by the driver. Now they feel like they have a choice. Highly recommend you do that with a driver personality. So let's talk about the ammubles, and in my opinion I have the most trouble with ammubles. I have to adapt my selling style to an ammuble and we all have them.
Speaker 2:You've gone on that call. Wow, that was a really good call, man. There was a lot of agreement. The homeowner showed a lot of support. They communicated with me. There was a lot of trust felt. They asked me for my opinion. What's in your house? Thank you for coming. They ask me for my opinion. What's in your house? Thank you for coming. Express a lot of gratitude. They speak slow, they're vague, they're cooperative, blah, blah, blah. And then they don't give you the order. The call went great right.
Speaker 2:I think they're the hardest to sell to, in my own opinion, because of my personality type. I'm a driver and animals tend to take their time. And then there's the expressive right, the expressive personality. They create excitement, they share their ideas, their dreams. They're motivated, firm handshake, they're quick, they're clear, they like to talk, they like to make them. I want the best. They make statements like that I want the best unit out there. I want the best that can buy. I'm the glowworm of the neighborhood, so you got to recognize that. So if they're inexpressive, so it's just. The science of this is gets so much cool. So think about it now. The one that is opposite of you and we can't do a chart on the screen right now, but the one that's opposite of you that is the most least like you is the one you're going to have the biggest trouble with. So now, your pool of who you can buy to went from 100% down to 75%, and you didn't even know what happened, because they're not comfortable because they're not comfortable.
Speaker 2:There's all kinds of science behind it for the specialty, like there's different things. They're going to want different personality types Especially. Let's do a quiz here. Let me quiz you. You ready? Let's do it this way. I'll give you the topic and write down the four personality types analytical driver, expressive and amiable.
Speaker 1:Just write them down, you ready.
Speaker 2:All right. So analytical driver, expressive and amiable Okay, if their specialty, I tell you, is technical, what do you think they are All right? Ask me that one more time. If they're interacting with you and you're trying to sell to them and their specialty seems to be technical and they're asking you technical stuff, what do you think they are Analytical If they take control of the call? What do you think they are Analytical If they take control of the call? What do you think they are? Expressive Driver Driver. If they're really social, what do you think they are Expressive If they're supportive? What do you think they are? Amiable? Okay, benefits Ready, here we go, let's test you more. You're doing really good. That's 100%, corey, I like that For benefits. And you're trying to sell them on benefits and they ask you how does that work? What do you think they are?
Speaker 1:I would think that would be analytical.
Speaker 2:Correct, okay, if I say to you what are the benefits of this equipment Driver? If I say to you who else has those benefits? What other brands have those benefits? Expressive, and if I say to you why are those benefits important? What do you think it is Amiable, right, yeah. Now, when it comes time to make a decision, you ready, here you go, corey, you're killing it. Man, you're eight for eight, my friend.
Speaker 2:Now it's decision time and they ask you for evidence and they ask you for service. Who do you think it is? Driver, not analytical. They're asking for evidence. The driver is going to ask you for options and probabilities because they want to make the decision Okay, fair For testimonies and incentives. That's an expressive. The amiable they're going to want to know about guarantees and insurances. What's the warranty, what's the labor protection, that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:Right Time how they measure you with time is very important. The analytical wants you to be accurate with your time. The driver says I'm giving you 45 minutes and that's what I'm giving you. The expressive needs you need to be stimulating. And the amiable you need to be agreeable. And they measure you differently. The analytical measures you with activity. They give you things to do. The driver wants results, the expressive wants applause. You'll be the only one in the neighborhood with the top of the line equipment, and this just goes on and on. The backup style is good to know. When the analytical starts avoiding you, that's their backup style. The driver gets autocratic, they'll tell you An expressive is worse. They'll attack you and an amiable kind of just like yields and acquiesces and like ghosts you and an amiable kind of just like yields and acquiesces and like ghosts you.
Speaker 2:So the main thing I want everybody to take out of this conversation that we're having right here is it all starts with looking in the mirror, being able to look in the mirror at yourself to see what personality type you are, and then being able to quickly identify the person you're selling to. So in 1940, john Paul Sartre wrote a play called no Exit, and in this play it's three souls that are trapped in the afterlife in a room with no exit. So that would be hell, right, sounds like it. They're stuck in a room and they're irritating the hell out of each other because they're trying to force change onto the other two people to be more like them. So hell isn't the torture chambers that we think it is, it's just all about wanting people to be just like you. Three out of four are definitely not like you.
Speaker 2:Now, imagine if you put a mirror now in this room and that each one of you can look in the mirror and reflect upon themselves and say what do I need to change about myself? Raising the question like, would I have the humility to be able to change if given a chance, if I can look in the mirror and adapt my natural selling style to make the buyer comfortable? So then trust gets formed way easier. I'm not telling you to be a chameleon. I'm not telling you to change who you are. If you're an expressive, be that If you're a driver, be that If you're an analytical, be that If you're amiable, be that, all I'm saying is modify your style so the homeowner or the person you're selling to, or even your family member or your, your spouse or a friend or your teammate, gets more comfortable with you. So then trust gets developed. It takes time, practice, but it's a really cool thing if you get that book and start trying to figure out people's personalities and you can figure them out pretty quickly.
Speaker 1:And the end result in a sale is that everybody walks away happy. You walk away as the salesperson, happy, the buyer walks away with the product and they're happy. And the quickest way to do that is the way you're talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not anything like shady or anything like that. All you're trying to do is to create trust and comfort and it goes back to what I said in the beginning of a buying process the process. There is tension because we don't want to be sold right. We like to buy from people we like, and the quickest way to get that comfort level is to learn the people's style, your style. There's an easy way to take a test, a habit see what kind of style you are, and we've done it internally here. You take the test, you give the test to your significant other, you give the test to somebody you work with and see if they see you the way you see yourself. It's pretty cool experience, especially when you see yourself a certain way and others don't see you that way.
Speaker 1:So that was actually. I thought about that a second ago. How many people, as I was telling you the kind of person that I am based on your questions, did that actually line up, Because that was my perspective, right? Did that line up with what you believe that I am? Did I describe myself as you would describe me, so to speak?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes. So the trick to this this and here's where it gets difficult so you can be a dominant one of the four, a dominant personality like the one of one of the four and the two that are right next to you. There's other personality types in this quadrant which I can't do on the screen right now, but you do have personality traits similar to that other two out of the four. One is definitely like you, two out of four is similar like you, but one out of four is definitely opposed to your personality type. Yes, you gave off everything. I thought you were pretty quickly. But here's the trick In long-term relationships you have a lot of time to really figure out what the person is, what their responses are, how they respond, how you assert yourself on them.
Speaker 2:The problem is in the home situation. When you're in the home and you're making a sale, you only have maybe 90 minutes. You're doing the home and you're making a sale, you only have maybe 90 minutes. You're doing the load calculation, you're looking at the ductwork, the electrical panel, you're trying to sell a job on the equipment and you got a very little bit of time to figure out that personality trait. But there's signals that give it to you quickly if you know how to see them. If you know how to see them, the key is being able, once you see that signal on how to react to it, what they're going to want from you An analytical is going to say to you what's the static pressure of this unit, right, they say that to you. Light bulbs go off. I know what you are, man. And if you don't know, they probably already know. They're testing you. So they just tell them. I'm gonna look it up right here. Thank god for these things now because you can look it up and tell them right away.
Speaker 2:The express is going to say I want the best one. That the driver is going to tell you. If, given choices, they're going to tell you which one they want, don't try to push them out of that box. And the amiable they're going to tell you if, given choices, they're going to tell you which one they want, don't try to push them out of that box. And the amiable they're going to want to know about warranties and assurances like that and who else has it, and reviews. And the minute you start hearing that, you kind of got to realize who you are. If I'm a driver which I am and I'm trying to sell to an amiable. That's tough, it goes both ways. I'm trying to sell to an amiable that's tough, it goes both ways. I'm going to irritate the amiable, the amiable is going to irritate me. So there you go. I'm now one person down and trying to make a successful sale to him. So I've got to recognize that personality type.
Speaker 1:And the analytical he's looking for. I'll just use your example. If he asks about the static pressure, he wants to know exactly what that is. He doesn't want a ballpark Right, because it makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about if you give that guy a ballpark.
Speaker 2:No, you'll lose trust, right, I guess somewhere around 1.25.
Speaker 1:No, they want to know Right.
Speaker 2:Anyway, I know it's a science. It's a fun science to practice and try to learn it. But I read you pretty quickly.
Speaker 1:So somebody listening to this conversation where would you recommend them? Start to figuring out who they are and to figure out who other people are. What would it be to go read that with the book you Versatile Selling, or would it be?
Speaker 2:Corey, I'm sure there's a lot of learning potential and availability out there on learning social styles of selling and buying. I would recommend that. Do that and don't tell me you don't have enough time. We're in our cars a lot driving. People call that the travel university. Right, listen to podcasts like yours that you have and listen, go on youtube and just start digging in and looking and learn how to read personality styles in a selling situation. I don't care which one you're doing. It doesn't have to be that book it could be any resource but first learn what you are and then identify how others are and then practice it.
Speaker 1:And will that book give you an idea of who you are based on the content? Okay, yes, yes, interesting. Yeah, I could see how this could be a downfall, for sure when people don't know, and then a massive benefit if they do know.
Speaker 2:It's a massive benefit if they do know.
Speaker 2:And it's a massive benefit if you can start to identify what others are saying to you is when you're in that situation and you have 90 minutes in somebody's home, if you can quickly identify that personality style, then you can quickly adapt your assertiveness, your selling style to make that homeowner more comfortable.
Speaker 2:If I go to somebody's house and I go in and they say you have 45 minutes and I say I really need 90 minutes to do a really thorough evaluation so you get the proper equipment, I do the right sizing, and they say no, 45 minutes. Right there, they're a driver, right, you better be prepared to offer choices, right? If I walk in there and I say I need 90 minutes and they say obviously your CSR should have already prompted that. But if they say I need 90 minutes and the buyer says oh, I'm good, you need more time, take more time, well, right there it starts to tell me that's probably an amulet or it could be an expressive. But then start to see how they react with you. Next they start asking you questions. A piece of paper out with tablet with notes already down that's probably analytical, probably.
Speaker 1:Yeah, are there certain? And it's not to trick anybody, but are there certain questions? I guess that you could ask to draw out some language that would give you an idea of where that person is.
Speaker 2:I think the most powerful you know. There's a list of questions what could I? How could I help you with your comfort? How can I help you with your comfort? How could I help you with your efficiency? How could I help you with your utility bill?
Speaker 2:But the biggest question I like to ask, because the beginning of the sales process people don't divulge right, they don't tell you what the real reason for buying is. So you go through the normal ask of questions what do you like least to best those kind of questions. But the best question for me is and I always do it if I could give you a magic wand and I handed it to you and you could fix one thing or change one thing about your heating and air conditioning system, what would it be? That kind of reveals a lot at that point. If you could change one thing, what would it be with a magic wand? If they say I'd like my utility bill to go down, okay, you're probably an analytical or driver. If they say I just want that, I want the best, most efficient system out there, probably an expressive. So there's. I like that question at some point in the sales process. What if I could give you a magic wand and fix one thing or change one thing for you. What would it be?
Speaker 1:One question that's always bothered me is what do you like about your current system? In my opinion, they haven't really thought about what they like. They just know the damn thing's not working Right. They don't really. I just that question. I just don't understand. It just seems like a really wide open question that is not super valuable, because I just don't know that you're going to get the answer you're looking for. But what you're asking is we know the magic wand question. Now it gives them an opportunity to imagine and that makes complete sense.
Speaker 2:Another one I think is a very good question is what is your criteria for this? Purchase Makes sense, and they may not even know because they've only bought maybe none. Now they're going to buy their first time. It's not like buying a car, where they bought cars already and bought more than one car in their life. They probably only buy one or two hvac systems. But what? What is your criteria?
Speaker 1:hmm, that makes sense. And if they go lower the bill? Now you understand what they are. If they say my bedroom's hot and my wife gets on my ass about it, but then that's a whole different. But it opens the door for them to tell you what the pain point is.
Speaker 2:Exactly that's the whole point. In one of my classes I talk about peeling away the onion to really get down to what it is that's really bothering them, and sometimes they don't divulge that early in the sales process.
Speaker 1:Most of the time they don't actually no they don't divulge that early in the sales process.
Speaker 2:Most of the time they don't actually. No, they don't, but part of it's what you said. They don't really know why they think they need a new system. Usually they think they need a new system when it dies, but right now, with this refrigeration change and on a service call, there's going to be a lot to talk about in the middle of this upcoming year when the R410 equipment availability is slowly diminished. And if you're a homeowner, you got to say do I want to buy the new one or do I want to go with the one? That's been consistent for the last 27 years. It's the contractor. He's got a sales consultant, they got to figure out the best way and they got to see what their supplier actually still has in stock. It's going to be chaos. We're in a zone of disruption right now. Yeah, sorry about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and without having good training and understanding how to navigate this, it is going to be a problem for sure. Yeah, I think the industry as a whole is in for it's going to be a it may be a rough year. It may be a rough year. When this happened the last time, since you've been in the business for 140 years, what did you see was the biggest? What did you see was the biggest the biggest problem when this change happened last time?
Speaker 2:I loved it you loved it, I loved it. Okay. So let's talk about the timeline of the hvac industry. Back in the day I can't remember what year it was, but we from we went up to 80% AFU, so it was lower than that. And then we went to 10 C for those listening seasonal energy efficiency of the outdoor unit. And then we went a few years and then we went up to minimum standard and the minimum standard for heating is still 80%, by the way. But then we went on the SEER rating. We went from 10 to 13. And that change was more disruptive than the refrigerant because the units all got bigger and everybody freaked out. And then the refrigerant change came and it was ozone friendly, it was easy. It was easy, and the contractors. It was more money, but the contractors adapted quickly and we loved it because homeowners were buying up pretty fast when we changed the refrigerant. And then the C-rays got raised again, and raised again, and now the refrigerant's being changed out.
Speaker 2:I'm sure in another couple of years and I hope it doesn't happen minimum gas efficiency may go up to above 80%, and that's going to be a nightmare. That will be a nightmare above 80%, and that's going to be a nightmare. That will be a nightmare, but sometimes change is progress. Right, and I think this is progress. We're saving, helping save the environment. People are getting a global warming potentiality in check and the ozone has been somewhat healed. It's a good story to tell, but R410, if you buy a system now with R410 and you have it maintained and serviced properly, it should last you 20 years. And the R454, same thing lasts 20 years. So this next year is going to be homeowners. Got more of a choice now. Makes sense, makes sense Makes sense.
Speaker 1:So this will be probably a difficult question because you have so much information. But if you were just a homeowner, what decision would you make? Would you stay with the R410 or would you go with the new product?
Speaker 2:It would depend on the price, of the retail price. I would want to know. If I'm selling to somebody and they're asking me, I'd ask how long do you plan on staying in this house? You plan on staying in this house and I think that the easiest way to sell HVAC and this is crazy how simple it is the homeowner you give them the resources where it says an HVAC system should last you 15 to 20 years if maintained properly. Okay, so let's just use the 15 years. If you take 15 years times 365 days, I think that's 5,450 days, okay. Okay.
Speaker 2:If you take 5,450 days and divide that, let's say it's $5,450, right, the difference in the two systems. If you take $5,450 and divide it by 5,450 days, that's a dollar a day. But the better equipment efficiency-wise and I'm not talking about the refrigerant, the efficiency-wise is going to save you money. So if it saves you $300 a year I don't know you do the math 365 days divided by $300, I don't know like 75 cents, 80 cents. So the better system that's got variable speed and higher efficiency, that's going to cost you a dollar a day, is giving you back a return on your investment of 80 cents a day. So the better system is now really only costing you 20 dollar a day. It's giving you back a return on your investment of 80 cents a day. So the better system is now really only costing you 20 cents a day, like it's a no brainer. It's a no brainer when you talk about how much is it per day.
Speaker 2:People look at this number at the end of the quote and they say the difference between a 14 SEER and a 17.5-seer is $5,450. Okay, it's a dollar a day, but it's saving you 75 cents 80 cents a day. So the better system is only costing you 15 cents a day. You tell me I don't know what your convenience stores are down in North Carolina where you live, but up in Pennsylvania there's a war between sheets and blah, blah, blah. You think about how many times a consumer goes into those convenience stores and spends 10 bucks, because that's the average of what a homeowner spends per day in one of those fast convenience stores. They spend $10 a day. Not even thinking about it.
Speaker 1:That's a really good point.
Speaker 2:You know where I saw that. It hit me years ago. I was driving back on the turnpike and I saw a billboard and it said this billboard only costs you X per day. I'm like wow, when you really start looking at it per day, it's so much easier to sell a heating and air conditioning system and upgrading it to the homeowner if you just narrow it down to the cost per day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because most people are going to your point. Most people are going to Wawa or they're going through Starbucks and they're spending exactly around $10 every day to do either one of those things.
Speaker 2:So I know when I was in sales that's what I would do. I would like it's per day. What's it going to cost you per day?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if you do the math and you walk it back to your point with the rebates and with all the things, if you know how to do that and I'm sure all of your people do know how to do that it makes that number very obtainable, even though the bigger number is what you're signing the check for or the financing for. But if you break it down, like I said, with the rebates and with the energy savings and….
Speaker 2:Tax credits.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're looking at four or five thousand dollars over the next 10 years I didn't even equate that into those numbers just now so then it's really a no-brainer if you know how to do that and some people don't, but it's. It makes it very simple for the homeowner to make a decision.
Speaker 2:If you present that to an analytical, it's a done deal. Man. If you say to the driver personality you want me to show you how you can get a return on your investment and after I show you you can make a decision, that now puts it back into their hands that they're the boss, you give it to the amulet and they're like wow, I feel really warm and fuzzy because you just showed me how this is going to save me money and actually make me money. When you throw in the rebates and all that stuff like you just mentioned, and the expressive, he's at the local barbecue boasting about how the system he just bought was like $18,000, $20,000. But after he did the math, he's making money on it.
Speaker 1:That's right. So you've covered all four of them with the same process, correct. Yeah, that makes complete sense. Yeah, it's nuts to not do it that way. It's nuts, and I've seen sales teams just can't wrap their head around it and I'm not sure why you know what I've done Now with the technology.
Speaker 2:The way it is, I just have an open spreadsheet and I plug the numbers in and it does it for me. But back in the day I just take a piece of paper out and I would have them write it down. Yes, sir the, and I would have them write it down. Yes, sir the buyer. I'd say let's do the math together and let's times this by this and write that number down for me. They write it down and then we do the next step and write it down and as they're writing it down, it's clicking because they're engaged in the math.
Speaker 1:That's right, a hundred percent and they're part of the sale. It's their own. Yeah, a hundred percent, and they're part of the sale. It's their own. Yeah, a hundred percent. And not to mention there's a massive amount of statistics behind physically writing something down and it's embedding into your brain and that connection. And a hundred percent, yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 2:You're making yourself accountable. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1:That's right, a hundred percent. This has been a great conversation. I know we're getting close to the end here. I think this has been extremely valuable from so many different points of view here. I think it's really important that you talked about the refrigerant change and what we've got coming up with that, and then I would encourage people I'm going to go buy this book and I'm going to listen to it for sure, because I'm just very interested in understanding more about myself and more about other people and I would encourage anybody listening to this that you should absolutely especially if you're in sales or if you're hell, if you're not in sales and you just want to have easier conversations you should go check this book out.
Speaker 2:Even if you have kids.
Speaker 1:That's right, because that's a sale. That's always a sale, somebody constantly. So, carl, if somebody wanted to reach out to you, where would they do that?
Speaker 2:I am on LinkedIn, I am on Facebook, but my email is cwi at Piercecom and it's P-E-I-R-C-E. We spell it not I before E. So it's cwi at Pierce, p-e-i-r-c-ecom Perfect, and I'd love that anybody wants to chat about it. So it's CWI at Pierce, p-e-i-r-c-e dot com Perfect, and I'd love that anybody wants to chat about it. I'd love to serve back and get back to the industry and there's a real science behind this and I love doing it. I love playing it. All the time.
Speaker 2:I try to read people's personalities and most of the time I'm right, but there's a lot of other ways to learn. I've said this to you on personal conversations that you and I've had, and I think this comes from the book Atomic Habit. All you got to do is get 1% better a day and over the course of the year that's 37% better. I don't think anyone listening to this would not want to be 37% better in anything they do in a year. It only takes 1% a day. And the last thing I'll say before we say happy holidays and Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah to everybody you can't take care of the ones you love if you don't take care of yourself. So take care of yourself. And it's not selfish, so you can take care of the ones you love.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, I totally agree. You can't help anybody else if you're not well. Yeah, carl, I appreciate you. My friend Really enjoyed the conversation.
Speaker 2:Let's rock. I'll definitely see you in August, april, april, april, that's right, thank you.
Speaker 1:All right.
