%20(1400%20x%201400%20px)%20(1400%20x%201400%20px)%20-%201.PNG)
Successful Life Podcast
The Successful Life Podcast, hosted by Corey Berrier, is a globally recognized show that ranks in the top 2% of podcasts worldwide. It offers expert insights tailored for contractors, focusing on business strategies, sales skills development, and the integration of artificial intelligence (AI) in the industry.
Successful Life Podcast
5 Ways to Transform Your Mindset for Success with Steve Foran
What if embracing gratitude could transform not just your personal life, but your professional world too? Join us as we chat with Steve Foran, an electrical engineer who turned his career towards advocating for grateful leadership. Together, we unravel our personal gratitude rituals—like my daily practice of sending out gratitude lists and Steve's habit of emailing his daily gratitudes. We explore the ripple effects that sharing gratitude can have, not only uplifting ourselves but also spreading positivity to those around us.
We dive into how the simple act of recording gratitude can bolster personal growth and even reshape our brains. I share my own journaling technique that follows a daily theme, while Steve and I discuss framing gratitude as both personal benefit and recognition of others' sacrifices. This dual perspective helps us appreciate our interconnections and the present moment. We also reflect on the challenges of weaving gratitude into the fabric of busy lives and workplaces, where it can enhance human connections and shift perspectives, ultimately creating a thriving workplace culture.
Finally, we talk about the role of gratitude in professional networking and the delicate balance between public expression and intimate sincerity. Sharing personal stories of vulnerability, including my own journey through loss and Steve's experiences with overcoming alcoholism, we underscore the courage required to share openly. Tune in to discover how gratitude can fortify bonds, encourage vulnerability, and offer insights into what truly matters, inspiring you to kickstart your own gratitude practice and make genuine connections in all areas of life.
Steve Foran
Steve@gratitudeeatwork.ca
http://www.gratitudeatwork.ca
http://linkedin.com/in/steveforangratefulceo
https://www.audible.com/pd/9-Simple-Steps-to-Sell-More-ht-Audiobook/B0D4SJYD4Q?source_code=ASSORAP0511160006&share_location=library_overflow
https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Steps-Sell-More-Stereotypes-ebook/dp/B0BRNSFYG6/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1OSB7HX6FQMHS&keywords=corey+berrier&qid=1674232549&sprefix=%2Caps%2C93&sr=8-1
https://www.linkedin.com/in/coreysalescoach/
Welcome to the Successful Life Podcast. I'm your host, Corey Barrier, and I'm here with Steve Foran. What's up, buddy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, enjoying my day and looking forward to this conversation with you, Corey.
Speaker 1:I am looking forward to it as well. So, steve, I'm really excited about everything that we're going to talk about today and I think first, if you don't mind, just share a little bit about some of the things you've done and who you are, and give everybody a quick snapshot of who we're talking to today.
Speaker 2:Okay, and maybe, and even a thanks to Ryan Schutt, our mutual connection, who put the two of us together. I know he's a guest on your show. Previously, I like to say I'm an electrical engineer who had a bit of an aha moment and now I'm a believer in grateful leadership and I just teach the simple benefits of having a grateful life and how to do that Like it's a real simple thing to do, but really it's a game changer.
Speaker 1:Is that a good yeah? For sure, I'm like I'm exploding just to start asking questions.
Speaker 2:You go.
Speaker 1:One. I totally agree with you and that's really why. That's why ryan connected us. He said he sent me your book, which I appreciate, and he said, cory, I think you need to interview this guy. He's I've known him for about 15 years and I said, okay, tell me. He said I've been reading this guy's gratitude list for 15 years and, ironically so, I have a practice every morning that I send out about was close to 100 text messages and I write my gratitude list out for the day and Ryan's one of the people on that list and and it I don't know how common it is.
Speaker 1:Maybe it's more common than I think, but I don't believe it's probably that common that people send that out. And I did it for a couple of reasons Selfishly, I did it because I like to start my day out with gratitude, like to start my day out with gratitude, and my hope is, when people read it, that maybe they think about what they're grateful for. It's not about them reading my list necessarily Actually, it's really not that at all. It's hopefully to set them up for that mindset, because me, I haven't always been a grateful person, I've been very selfish, and it sets my day up to look at things from a through a different lens does that make this whole idea of gratitude is a perspective offer.
Speaker 2:It offers us a different perspective, or a deeper perspective on the world around it and how we make sense of it. And I do something similar, and Ryan said he's been reading my gratitudes for 15 years. It's been about 15 years that I started. On weekdays, I send out three gratitudes from me by email and a guest, and so after we're done here, I'd love you to be a guest for a week. And there are two main habits that I teach to help people really level up their mindset that, if they want if you want a world class mindset. Two simple habits make a list of what you're grateful for and consume other people's gratitudes, read or listen to them. And the second one I don't know anyone that teaches it what you're doing, though you are teaching it by what you're doing.
Speaker 2:I tripped into it by accident probably, I don't know 13 or 14 years ago.
Speaker 2:It was after I'd started setting my list out, but I subscribed to somebody else's gratitude blog and what I realized was on the days that I didn't feel like making my list, as we all have, don't we? Yeah, reading what someone else is grateful for is a nonjudgmental way for me to adjust my mindset, because no one's saying, like the folks that get your gratitudes, they're not saying Corey is telling me I should be grateful for blah, blah, blah. But when I'm having a crappy day or I'm having a great day and I read what Corey's grateful for, I got that too. I didn't. Maybe I've been taking that for granted. So it's not like I'm boogieing along, it's like, oh my goodness, how could I have not thought of and it's done in a nonjudgmental way. So that practice that you're doing, it just send them ripples out and it's helping start people on the right day. So good on you. And that's my take on this idea of recording them for ourselves but not sharing them with others so that they can benefit from it.
Speaker 1:You said something really important there. You said the ripple, the ripple effect. It is mind-blowing to me and I would have never anticipated the ripple effect, but it's a. It's amazing when you get back somebody else's gratitude list and maybe they've never done a gratitude list and the impact that it has on people's lives. I would have never anticipated that.
Speaker 2:When I started just want to build on your thing when I started, I had the idea I want to send out an email and I'm going to put and it was just me at the time, cause I, when I started, I had the idea I want to send out an email, and it was just me at the time. When I started, I didn't have the idea of having a guest in every week. I believed this is important, but you know how you can dote. It's important. You tell you the things in your head and for you listening or watching, right, you know that this solution is going to be the best solution for the client. But you wonder, oh geez, are they going to be interested in paying a little extra for this, or it's a little more complex to operate? And we start telling ourselves these stories that eat away at what we know is the right solution, or the best thing at what we know is the right solution or the best thing.
Speaker 2:I'd put a little yellow sticky note on my computer so that I would see it every day. This is important, like that's when you feel, like when you make a decision and you're all excited about it. That's when I wrote it and what it did was on the days that I didn't feel like writing it or whatever. Like I remember someone saying, character is not how you feel when you make the decision, it's how, six months later, a year later, what shows up when you don't feel like doing it, and that I just used it as a reminder. So it is absolutely important and these ripples that go out, like you said, what did it feel like when you get something back from someone else? Oh to the blue. And you might be thinking what difference am I making?
Speaker 1:You can't buy the feeling. Yeah, you can't buy the feeling. It's really, and I think and I think people could here's what I thought when I my my girlfriend, my partner, is the person that started sending it to me, and it was really long, and I thought why in the world does she send all this stuff? I don't have time to read all this selfish, I don't have time to read all this. And then I started sending it back, all this, and then I started sending it back to her, and then I started sending it to other people and what I found is it it's a, I think, the feeling that I get, not just sending it out, but the feeling from when people send it back you've made a difference, you've changed something about their day, and that's really important to me. It's impact.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it, it. It really isn't. I don't think you did it for that reason, Right In the first place, like if you, and if you do it to get something back, that's the wrong mindset, right, Wrong intention. You just do it to. If it helps someone, great, If it doesn't, great. And that's a beautiful. That's just a really beautiful approach to it yeah.
Speaker 1:I do wonder, though, if people people think, should I send it back? Does he really care what I'm grateful for? But they don't really understand how amazing it is to get that list back. Yes, I know it is, it's tremendous. So when you're writing your gratitude list, what? When you think about what it is you're going to write, is it something that is it do you? So this is how I do it, and let's just you see what you get out of this. I just think about I sometimes I'm grateful for the challenges. Lots of times in life, I'm grateful for the gifts, I'm grateful for the challenges and I'm grateful for the challenges, and I'm grateful that I can look at it that way. And so lots of times, my lists are around some of the challenges and being present, and so when you make your list, how is it you go about doing that?
Speaker 2:Over the years it's evolved and what I've noticed. I've mixed it up over the years, and I remember a few years ago I would I do three. Just in terms of my recording, I record three, and I remember I used to do family work, community, family work community, and currently, and probably for the past three or four years, I've just each day, I just find a theme, and so I take a theme and just build on a theme. So the other day, one of my themes was plan B, because things went sideways, and even if you don't know what the plan B is, I know you can create a plan B, and so I'll create a bit of a theme and then, okay, what's been happening, and sometimes the theme it usually is what's bubbling up in my life, things that are going on, and I typically do my.
Speaker 2:I record my gratitudes at night, at the end of my day. Typically, I start my day by consuming, reading other people's gratitudes. That's how I tend to start my day consuming reading other people's gratitudes. That's how I tend to start my day, and one of the key things here, though, that I think is really important for folks, for you listening or watching, is I want to encourage you not to just think about what you're grateful for. Take the extra step, grab a pen or use a gratitude app and record it. That physical, the kinetic it's a little tougher but it does. It has a greater impact on the neurotransmitters and the neuroplasticity in your brain and it rewires your brain. It's. You can think of it like if you go to the gym and you're doing curls with free weights and you don't put any weight on them right, pretty easy, but you don't get the results. Make them 20 pounders and it gets a little tough. And I'm a 20 pounder guy, not a 70 pounder guy on the biceps, but you put more weight on it.
Speaker 2:It's harder, but you get more results. I just want to encourage you to record them. I mix it Back to your original question. I mix it up. I look at what's going on in my life. Is there a theme to it? Sometimes I know my theme. My wife would be looking at me and she'd say you're stretching it there, buddy.
Speaker 1:You know, bud Makes sense. Now, when you say record it, I think of a voice recording. You mean you either write it down or type it in a note or something like that.
Speaker 2:Write or type and involve another sense, and so if you can't do that, speak them out loud, like that is better than just thinking about it. Because you have a conversation with somebody. How cathartic it can be how you get to them, you know what you're going to do. If you're facing a problem and you just talk to a friend about a challenge you're having, all of a sudden the ideas start coming, so you hear what you say. So that's another way to get that out as well too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and for people that are auditory, it's really good for them. Kinesthetic, you could do either of the three Auditory speech and honestly that's interesting, so I type mine. Yeah, I type mine, yep, so that is recording. Now, do you go back and look at the list and do you ever go back and look, I don't really go back and look, I don't really go back and look, I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't either. I know people that do. I do Every now and then I did once because I record them on my website and people do. And there was this idea that I'd like to chat with you about here, and this is the reason I went back to look at my list. I went back and looked at I know there was like 16 000 gratitudes and we categorized them in one of two categories benefits to self or sacrifices to of others. Okay, right, do you get, because gratitude is two. There's two sides of a coin here. Like I could be in this instance, I could be grateful to be on this podcast, right, and I could be grateful because, core, you put your reputation on the line. This is your space. Right, you are putting your reputation online every time. You, and I'm just like I'm grateful for you for that. That is the sacrifice of somebody else.
Speaker 2:Yes, I could also be grateful for man. I'm gonna get lots of exposure and that right benefit to me yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Two sides of the same two, two sides of the same coin.
Speaker 2:Now for someone. You're watching, you're listening right. When you go to meet a customer, a potential customer, I'm going to ask you what are you grateful for about that meeting and nothing can be a benefit to you. And when you start thinking that way, how do you think you're going to show up in front of your customer Like Corey, how would you want me to show up on this podcast, thinking how much exposure I'm going to get, or really honoring the gift that you've given me here and again I go back to my website 16,000 gratitudes. We're four times more likely to frame our gratitudes as benefits to ourself versus sacrifices of others. So one of the things that maybe, even if you were to look at yours and that's why I looked at mine and I mix up how I frame my gratitudes I make sure sometimes I talk about benefits to me, my gratitudes. I make sure sometimes I talk about benefits to me, but if I'm always doing that, I'm losing sight of all the, because gratitude really recognizes our interdependence with others.
Speaker 1:What do you think of that? Yeah, I think you're, I think you're totally right. And now I need to go back and look to see, because because I don't I would never want it to come across a self that's. That is defeating the purpose a bit like in.
Speaker 2:I live in canada and on november 11th we call it remembrance day. But I know what do? Do you call it on November 11th in your country? No idea, is it Veterans Day Memorial?
Speaker 1:No, I think it's Veterans. One of those.
Speaker 2:So I'm grateful for my freedom. I'm grateful for my freedom. On November 11th, we really turn our eyes to those who've enabled our freedom and the sacrifices that they and their families have made, and that's because, to me, there's nothing wrong with benefits to self, but it's just mixing those two things up is really to me. Me, it was a game changer when I realized that too that's really interesting.
Speaker 1:It really makes me yeah, I've definitely got to go back and look and see. Um, yeah, I need to go back and look and see, because I think a lot of it might be. It might lean in towards the self, if I'm being honest, right, because lots of times it is things that I'm going through or. But I also look at it. I look at as an example if it's a challenge I'm having in at work or I am grateful for that because I'm going to learn something from it, right.
Speaker 2:Right, so that's benefit to you. So imagine like a challenge provides a benefit. When I talk to people about we do this exercise, people share their challenges. They're also grateful for all the people around them who tends to there's some support that they've had. It benefits them. Tends to there's some support that they've had. It benefits them. But it's other people's sacrifices that really happen. Because, um, people talk about what they learn from challenges, the person they become, but they what they've learned about themselves. Like what you've learned about yourself, that that you didn't realize that you had in you before, like all these types of things.
Speaker 1:But it helps you to be a better person. To other people. It could be a benefit. Yes, there's a benefit to the challenges, but also I think those benefits to self with the challenges helps me to recognize where I can do better with other people, no question. So you work with business owners on this process and what have you found and how do you go about doing that?
Speaker 2:It's a very simple process. It's not easy, though, because life happens, we have businesses to run and people to all these things, and it really is just helping people. What I do at the very beginning we do a simple training that helps folks see their life, in their work, their role, like just see it in a completely different way, through the lens of gratitude, and then give some real simple tools that we talked about, like simple making a list of what we're grateful for reading, listening to what others, and that is is there's no magic to it. Like, in some ways, I almost wonder why do people even hire me? This is so simple, but bob emmons he is, he would not, he would probably disagree with. He's the leading scientific researcher on gratitude, he's at a UC Davis, and.
Speaker 2:But Bob says the number one barrier to a gratitude practice is forgetfulness. We forget because things just got crazy at work. Something happened to my aunt, my wife, my child, like life gets in the way. And the other thing we forget are the tailwinds in life. When headwinds are on us, we notice them, but when we have tailwinds tailwinds like living in this society in which we live today we just adapt to it. We don't even realize that it is just pushing, boosting us along.
Speaker 2:So these things can, these tailwinds, forgetfulness can get in the way of it. So it really is not a come in once and let's do some training on it. But how do you build that into your culture the same way you would safety quality? And so really I don't do that for my clients, but I coach and support them in that so that they can make gratitude. How do you do it when you've got a crew of trucks out on the road and you want to, the same way you do safety or quality? You just find ways to integrate it into how you operate as an organization.
Speaker 1:And if I had to guess, the leader is typically the chokehold on whether that gets implemented or not. It is.
Speaker 2:And if you're sitting there and you're thinking my leader doesn't do it, I don't want to accept that as an excuse for you. Not to do it, because you can still do this In spite of this is just going to be a challenge for you, right, corey? Yeah, it's going to be a lot harder though. Yeah, no question, but it begins and ends with leadership, but that doesn't mean it has. It can't happen without leadership, right?
Speaker 1:I think you can imagine a work of contractors and if they would start their day out like this, they would have a whole different perspective on life. It's what it's done for me. It's forced me by doing that list and sending it out every day. It forces me to sit down and really think about. Sometimes it's really small things. Sometimes it's things like I'm really just grateful for waking up. I do an ice bath every morning. Do I love the ice bath? A hundred percent do not love it. However, I am grateful that I'm, that I get into it every day. I'm grateful that I have the opportunity to get into it. And it's really small things because we don't think about we don't think about the things that we take for granted until they're missing and right it's. I don't want to have that feeling.
Speaker 2:I don't want to have the feeling of if I, I just and I think this is a way to get past that- it is, and it's one of these things that the things that we take for granted are, for most of us, the things that are closest to us, the things that are most important to us, to us, the things that are most important to us. And so a gratitude practice what it does is it just helps elevate our awareness of what we have and it enables us to be more intentional about how we're going to respond to it. Not guilt when I realized just the privilege that I have in this world. I don't want to accept it with guilt. Why me and why not someone? But I don't know why me.
Speaker 2:But do you know what? What a gift. Accept it with gratitude. And when we do that, when you're grateful, you want to say thank you, you want to reciprocate, we want to do things, and that's that ripple that you talked about earlier, because that helps create a better world. One little smile, interaction at a time, like how we act at the supermarket or grocery store, when we're interacting with whoever's checking us out. To me, that is an excellent time for me to say thank you, just by how I interact with the people that I deal with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree. And that person in the supermarket, to your point, people. That may be the first time I like to ask people how they're doing, how their day's going. How much longer do you have to work? Because I don't. I believe that they probably don't get a lot of that interaction every day.
Speaker 2:They don't. I do the same thing and it takes it from a transaction to more of a human connection and I remember how are you doing? And everyone says a lot of people say how are you doing? And then I'll just look them in the eye and say how's your day going. I did this once, this one woman. She looked back at me and then she just broke down, corey, and she said man, I'm just actually. It's happened several times because people have a lot of stuff going on in their life and they're holding it together and it just is. There's some solidarity in human connection and it's just a real, I think it's a real beautiful thing that you're doing. So keep doing it.
Speaker 1:Thank you. I appreciate that and I think four years ago we got to experience such a lack of human connection and it made me realize how important it was, because it was just all of a sudden it was not there and the masks and you couldn't see people's facial expressions, and I think I can't even imagine what kind of damage that probably did. But it made me realize this is important, it's really important, and I'm in recovery. I'm a recovering alcoholic, so I go to meetings and I need that human connection. Otherwise I'm left to my own devices, which is not great. But it also gives me an opportunity to hear. If this, I don't know, this sounds terrible, but sometimes it really shifts my perspective. If I hear somebody talking about what's going on in their life, that maybe is not that great, it doesn't make me feel like I'm better than them, but it does take me back to the times that weren't that great for me and then I can really be grateful. I'm not in that spot. Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2:And we hear people that we can. It's natural to compare as a human and I don't think it serves me well when I compare. You can hear somebody talk about what they're grateful for and it's a bit of a calibrator Because I found myself I just got off a call with somebody before we we connected here and she was talking about the difference in work cultures from the country she came from to the country she's in now and how that she's able to interact with the owners, and it just made me like again things we take for granted here and this is something that someone is just talking about how fortunate they feel in an entry level position in an organization to be able to have this like privilege to talk to them without having to call them sir, madam, mr, mrs, and they care about me and they know my name. It's a bit of a shake your head moment.
Speaker 1:But people want that and I think people want that more than they want another dollar or two per hour. I see this a lot in the trades. People jump around and they jump from job to job. I don't believe that would be the case in that organization, which take your pick. If there was more human connection, just ask your employees how they're doing. Just ingenuinely ask how they're doing. Spend four, five minutes with them, because it means the world to people. It's more important than the extra dollar an hour.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it absolutely is. And you highlighted something there, corey, with the word genuine, and we all we just know it has to be genuine, because if someone's not genuine, you sniff it out in a second right, you just know. But people, one of the things that I've learned over the years through I'm an engineer, not a psychologist fundamental, foundational needs that we have as humans that need to get met. For us to show up as our best selves at work, at home, community doesn't matter we need to feel capable and competent, meaning we're skilled, trained, we have all the technical side. And two we need to feel, believe that we're socially valued. We need to know that someone cares about me and at work, that person is my boss. And if I don't think that my boss genuinely cares for me, even if I have all the skills, I'm not going to show up as my best self.
Speaker 2:And the challenge for that is if you have folks that report to you and you do genuinely care for them and I think most people do if your folks don't believe it, it doesn't matter, it's going to be what they believe and that's really hard. So we really, to me, it's really important to step up as a leader and like how are things in the? I know your son was trying out for the football. How'd they make out with it? Your daughter, she's doing ice skating. Are you going away for the weekend for that competition and to really build that and be genuine with it? Those are really important things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree and I think, yeah, I totally agree. It's in your subconscious, can sniff it out, right. If you're not genuine, I may not know what it is about you, that I'm not, that's not connecting, but inside I know that something's off. And if I know something's off, I'm not going to move forward. If I'm trying to sell something or buy something or there's, it's a it's, it's an internal, it's an internal guide, if you will, that there's incongruence, and if there's incongruence in the conversation or in the facial expressions or in the tone, you can, you're going to pick it up.
Speaker 2:You're going to pick it up. Our kids are grown now but when they were small they knew, like I knew in my network, who were kid people and who weren't kid people, because I knew them and knew that my kids knew it as soon as they were around them. They didn't have to say anything and my just avoided them like it's they? This is little kids yeah, 100.
Speaker 1:So that's a great. That's a great segue actually. When, as a parent, you're a parent parent, when your kids are looking to you for guidance as an example, they know when that's not happening. They know when, if you're doing things let's just say, I'll take the drinking example If you're drinking, they know something's not right and there's going to be trust broken there. It's really hard. The way a friend of mine says that. He says whenever you lose trust, it's like you dump the trust out of the bucket and then it comes back in one drip at a time. It's really hard to get trust back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, gratitude. Bit of time. Oh yeah, it's really hard to get trust back. Yeah, yeah, gratitude. I know folks that are our kids were half grown, uh, when I started this work and they call it my midlife crisis. So they joke with me around it. But they I see people who are teaching their kids. So I started when my kids were like 12, 13 years old. Right, I know people who are doing it when their kids are three, four, five years old, when they go to bed at night. Just ask them what they're grateful for.
Speaker 2:Like, young children really don't. Cognitively, are not able to understand what gratitude is truly until somewhere between 9 and 13. I don't know the exact age, but different things I've looked at. Our brain doesn't develop enough. We still think we're the center of the universe when we're small, right, but these exercises and practices that parents teach their kids when they're three, four, five, six, seven years old they've done research on this, so science has looked at this and then come back seven, eight years later and the effect on young adolescents is that there is a marked improvement in gratitude and delayed gratification in how these kids show up in school, their social connections, fewer tummy aches, all these types of things that we would think in adults lead to higher performance in a workplace, that lead to well-adjusted young adults and kids. So it's really I think you can't start too soon. Be the example.
Speaker 1:That is a great example. Well, between I think it's ages zero and seven, from the studies. That's where we for the lack of better terms we program and we just on that same program for the rest of your life, which is really nuts to think about. It's, it's 100 percent true. I mean, you said something earlier that I want to hone in on. You said whatever they believe, if it's the employees don't believe that you're grateful, or they don't believe whatever you're saying, it is whatever. It doesn't matter if you're you think it's believable or not. If they don't believe it, it's not true. Right? Because our perception, my perception of you and your perception of me, is the real thing, because that's what I believe and doesn't really matter if it's true or not. That's what I believe. It's really hard to change that.
Speaker 2:It is hard to change. But back on that, the only thing as leaders is just lean into it and we can't make people guilt. If you try and force someone, it's just be the example and let time prove you right. And it's hard, it's not easy, because you might lose some folks as a result of it some really good folks. It's hard as a result of it, some really good folks.
Speaker 1:It's hard, so curious from a monetary perspective, and I don't know if you have this information or not. My guess is that you probably do. So. Let's just give me an example of a company not the name of the company that you've gone in and things that you've worked with them on. This process, the gratitude process, what would you say monetarily changes, because everybody wants to tie money to everything and I imagine people want to know if there's going to be a monetary, which is the wrong intention, really, but I imagine that's part of the conversation. So what have you seen with someone who does it for monetary gain? And then what have you seen for someone who genuinely wants to be grateful and instill that in the culture? What have you seen?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know I've lost I don't know how much. I don't know how much business I've lost when I've said, if you're just doing this to improve the bottom line, don't bother starting, and I know I haven't started with a number of clients because of that.
Speaker 2:But there's science out there that has looked in workplaces and found that people in the receiving end of gratitude 50% more productive. They're more intrinsically motivated, which is like intrinsic motivation is tied to higher levels of job satisfaction, which is lower turnover, people showing up for work less likely to cut corners. Safety is higher for people who are grateful. So then you take some of the studies that are out there on this would look at somewhere between $2,600, $2,700 per employee per year in avoided costs from turnover, presenteeism, sick time, all these types of things.
Speaker 2:And I remember working with a company that I worked with, but before I worked with them we were sitting in their boardroom with the executive and they asked a similar question and I said look, if you would like to do some work and benchmark where things are today and then we can come back in six months and a year's time assess the change that's made, I'm all in with this, like I'm an engineer, right, I want to quantify this wherever you can, and even though there's all these moving parts in an organization, that has been the biggest challenge in getting it. But I'll come back. So I'm in the boardroom and I say I'm all in. What, if you want to do this? And then one of the executive. She says wouldn't that just cheapen it? Wouldn't that this idea of trying to quantify and measure it all? Wouldn't that just cheapen it? Because what they're really trying to do is unleash a culture where their people can thrive at work, and if we try to reduce it to a bottom line number, are we missing the point? Here is what she was saying.
Speaker 1:I think so.
Speaker 2:And the room went quiet.
Speaker 1:I bet.
Speaker 2:And they said we'll get started with the training next week or whenever it was that we got going with it. So what I see most that you can get back is just lower turnover, is that people have higher levels of satisfaction. Employee engagement scores is something else that we see that people can measure and say, yep, we've had our like making a movement. I'm talking to another client now. They just got some engagement scores that were lower than they were looking for. They want to lean into recognition and building a culture of gratitude. That's another way to measure it and it's still a step removed from ROI on the bottom line.
Speaker 1:But it's behaviors each and every day that show up in how we interact with each other going to receive, but if they do it genuinely, with the right intention, there's a level of joy that's going to come along with that, which is bound to improve the bottom line. Even if it doesn't, you're a happier person.
Speaker 2:Happiness is one of the key outcomes of building a grateful mindset, and not happiness that goes up and down, that is based on what's going on in the world.
Speaker 2:We're talking about happiness that is genuine being, that enables you to feel like life is a playground, even when crap's happening, and gratitude is. It's not about ignoring and pretending crap doesn't happen, but when crap happens, when think people crews are like we're down, like 20 of our staff today, we have all these customers that need to get serviced and whether it's in new installs or maintenance calls or emergency calls that we're dealing with. That's when we need the executive function in our brain, and the only way we get that is when we're in a positive emotional state. If I sink into a negative emotional state when all this stuff's happening, I lose my ability to think critically, to be innovative, to make decisions and all these, and it can feel like the world's just going away on us. A gratitude practice is going to help people be better leaders and to deal with the crap, so I think it's the thing we need the most when the proverbial hits the fan.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree with you, and when you were explaining all that I thought, okay, so what could be? What would be? How would I look at? We've got maintenance calls. We're 20% down. I have to look at. I'm grateful that we have customers. We do.
Speaker 2:We've got customers and it's what's our. We've got customers that we've got relationships with. I know there's three that we can call and we're going to be able to get that like we start from a place of not scarcity, but really it's abundance, and maybe it's just grateful for the team that's here that's willing to step up. And if you can work till seven tonight, great. If you can't work and you've got to be home at four or five whenever it is, that's fine too, but we're grateful that you're going to be here with us today. It really coming from that place of what we have, because gratitude is about noticing what we have and if we only focus on what we don't have, which is how our brains are wired right, yes, like just if you get a call from your boss or a customer like your biggest customer sends you a text I need to talk to you right now what is the first thing that comes to mind? What do you?
Speaker 1:want to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Does anyone think we're getting a big project? Nope, because that's what they could be texting about, right? 100%, so we focus on what we don't have, and so when we're down 20%, we need to be able to focus on the resources that we have, not on the resources that aren't here.
Speaker 1:Right, and it's a bigger number. Focus on the 80%, not the which one.
Speaker 2:How do we use that today? And it's one step at a time, right? Yes, you get it cory, right yeah?
Speaker 1:yeah, because we don't. We can't control anything, but tomorrow's not promised for any of us. No, it's just not and it's what we can do right now. And guess what? I can only control what I can touch. I've got no control over anything else. I just don't. I can try all I want, but it's just not going to work out.
Speaker 2:At least that's my experience yeah, it is, and I just wonder, like for you, what has been I don't know, like the biggest benefit that might not be the best term for it, but of having and building this practice? What has it done for maybe? What has it done for you?
Speaker 1:I think that it has given me the ability to touch people in a very, in a very special way People that I do, people that are clients that I do business with, because they, I think they see there's it's almost like for lack of better term it's almost like a. It's almost like a magic trick, because it is and the intention wasn't for it to be that way, but it's allowed me to build really deep relationships with people that otherwise would have taken. I don't know how else I would have built those deep relationships. Right, does that make sense? Has that been similar to your experience?
Speaker 2:It's been a game changer for me. I almost feel like I have this insulated vest, like I don't know. Just that protects me from like when COVID four years ago. When that happened it don't get me wrong, it affected me, but I know, if I didn't have my gratitude practice, I know it would have been a lot different. And when things happen, I know I can get sucked into the chaos, but I'm able to notice that more quickly and get myself back out of it so that I'm in a place where I can and I ain't perfect Like I I'm not perfect, okay, but I'm a better chance being the person that I am striving to be. It's a journey. It's a journey of mastery, too, I believe.
Speaker 1:And people can see that I I get. I really, when I send my list out, it's really from my heart, like it's really things that I mean there's no fluff, like it's not. I don't send it out for any reason other than that those are the things that I'm grateful for and I think that it. I just think it touches people in a different way.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's hard to explain really.
Speaker 2:We have enough people telling us what to do every day. Your list you're not telling anyone to do anything. That's the. That's what I love about it, and people are going to do something with it. Without you telling them to do anything with it, they take it upon themselves and do something with it, and that, I think, is a really powerful idea. Corey, right, how you influence, that's leadership, right? Leadership, to me, is about influence and how we influence others. How do you influence a customer to buy? They decide. How we show up, though, has a tremendous impact on how we influence others.
Speaker 1:I agree there's been a few people that it's almost facilitated a relationship that they don't have otherwise.
Speaker 1:When people send back stuff that's really deep and true to them, and I have a few of those that really really reach deep and sometimes there's one guy in particular that he's he just he really puts it out there for me.
Speaker 1:I don't know that he sends it to anybody else, I have no idea, but but seeing that evolve too, it went from these things like the surface-level gratitude and to now it's grateful for the conversation I got to have with my kid after football about the challenges in his life, as an example, and I don't know if he would have thought about those things if we hadn't have started this back and forth.
Speaker 1:And I always comment on what he sends me because I think it's important, that's recognized and and it validates. I think it validates feelings and it validates that they can have that. It's almost a vulnerability, not in a negative sense, meaning it gives them an opportunity to be vulnerable about things that are really close to the vest and as men especially, we keep things really close to the vest and as men especially, we keep things sometimes close to the vest. We don't want macho whatever, but this guy in particular is just really opened up and it's really, it's just really cool. I met the guy one time in my life and I feel like I know him at a level that's incredible.
Speaker 2:And he knows you at a level because, like I, believe in as little as 15 gratitudes, we get to know somebody very well, and this goes back to your point about how you can really build relationships and sharing what we're grateful for with each other, and it might start with like coffee or whatever, but as we get to know each other, we start going deeper and more meaningful. And, within a team, imagine a team, a crew, that really got to know what was really important in each other's lives, because that's what surfaces up when we start talking about what we're grateful for and, on any given day, it is the things that are happening in and around our lives, because people will tell me I feel like I know you so well, steve, and these are people I have never met, never talked to, right. They receive an email every day. I know the ins and outs and the ups and downs and the rhythms of our lives and your folks that get your gratitudes same thing our lives and your folks that get your gratitudes.
Speaker 1:Same thing. Yeah, it's amazing. I would encourage anybody to start this practice, because it's just something about it that most I don't know. I don't know how many people tell even their significant other that they're grateful for them. Probably not a lot. We probably just assume they know that, but you can't assume anything, in my opinion.
Speaker 2:You can't. One of my clients, the CEO. They've got seven or eight different facilities, 140 people not a huge company, right? We did the initial training with them. People have been there like 30 years in this facility, didn't know, never met someone in another facility, didn't even know their name, right? So what they did? She said we're going to set up some gratitude buddies, what I want you to do. For 30 days you're going to have a gratitude buddy at another facility. You're going to pair up with someone and then once a day you're going to text each other one thing you're grateful for. That's probably seven years ago.
Speaker 2:They started that. It most stopped after 30 days. Some are still going, but what folks said I can't believe how much I got to know this other person and it was like and the thing is, corey say, you and I were gratitude buddies and it's Thursday night at 10 o'clock. You sent me gratitudes in the morning but you haven't heard from me yet 10 o'clock. You're probably going to pick up your phone and go Steve, haven't heard from you today. What are you grateful for? And I come back with something like just having a really hard day, what Having someone like you on the other end makes me feel really appreciated, so grateful for our friendship. Talk tomorrow, something like that. And it does build connections. So in an organization, the simple idea of getting people to pair up and say just want you to do it for 30 days.
Speaker 2:This isn't a lifelong commitment. Do it for 30 days and see how it works.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree. I believe 100% that it will work, know it will. We were proof of it.
Speaker 2:yeah, so tell me a bit about the book, if you would, your book yeah it, it's full of stories, a little bit about my journey from being an electrical engineer to a believer in grateful leadership and just the lessons that I learned along the way. And really I remember at the book launch one of my best friends got up and said I can't believe he told some of the stories that he told in this book, because I don't. You're gonna leave feeling positive and uplifted and I don't go to get therapy by talking about all my challenges. But in the not that I do but in the book we go a little deeper into some of the basic learnings that I've had about gratitude and then what you can do. What are the practical things that you can do? Really, I always call it it's like a step-by-step guide on things that you can do to live a thriving life, so that you feel, like my words, life is like a playground and I believe it can be that for everyone.
Speaker 1:I agree. In the name of the book it is Surviving to Thriving Ten Laws of Grateful Leadership.
Speaker 2:Do you guys have Amazon?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:The bane of my existence and my favorite store. Yeah, so like I've been doing this work for probably 10, 11 years and I've been thinking about writing a book and not writing a book, and three years in I wrote a book. I showed it to my kids. They said dad, that's not a book, that's a book, let first, one that I wrote 30 pages. It's harder to write a 30 page book. And then I had a goal to write a book for a while and in my over the years then I'd three months into, the year is not the year, this is not the year.
Speaker 2:And in 2018 I decided it's the or 17 because it came out in 18, no 9, 18. I made it because it was published in 2019 and you put a book out and it's like inviting the entire world to your house and you're hoping someone shows up. You know what I mean. Oh yeah, I've written a book and that's what I felt like. Is anyone going to take this and buy it? It didn't make New York Times bestseller, wall Street bestseller. And then I get this text one day and I'm doing a session. I see all these orders going flying. The Greater Good Science Center at Berkeley recommended it as one of the top reads for the summer and really it's a story about an engineer with some knowledge about psychology a engineer with some knowledge about psychology and even Inc called it one of the top 10 positive psychology books to read. I'm an engineer, I'm not a psychologist, but really, as an engineer, I like to think there's some practical takeaways that you can use in it.
Speaker 1:So I want you to tell me. I know we're getting close on time, but I'm curious what story in the book did you almost not put in because of that chatter that we get in our mind and maybe yeah.
Speaker 2:Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, april 4th 2013,. My mom died, okay, and I had a speaking engagement that day and I did the engagement and I just told the story of that. And even the story of that was such that I want to be able, whatever I do on a daily basis, I want to do it and not live with shame or regret, like you talk about in a recovery program. I'm sure there was a day you felt shame I know you don't feel shame today, or I'd like to talk about it and mom, yeah, so she had died five years earlier and I anyhow, that was me, that was more like and you went and you still spoke who are you?
Speaker 2:I tell the story in the book as to what happened and why and all this stuff, but it was just like, yeah, and I, when you know, like I'm at peace and how do you know? You just know, right, you just, and, as an engineer Fifteen years ago, if you would have told me that, I would say no way, there's no, you just know. And I'm not actually having lunch Friday with Joe, who taught me this idea about you just know. And I went to him once and I said how do you know when you're fooling yourself and you know what he said. You just know.
Speaker 1:Wow, and what was the hesitation of putting the story in the book? Because of the judgment of people thinking you're not a great person? Yeah, yeah, it makes sense, totally right. Yeah, yeah, it makes total sense. But you kept your commitment and that was the point, I imagine, is that, regardless of what happens in life, you're responsible to be somewhere. Then that's your commitment and it was my commitment.
Speaker 2:I could have found someone else. I could have done someone else. There was a connection into the family. There was I really talking to dad and my brothers and sisters and my wife. Where would mom be on all this and we all the stuff that we had done in the morning and planning up to it. It was like it was the whole day up to this was spent around getting everything organized and stuff yeah, but I was just like you know what fear of being judged. That's why.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it stops more people than we can even imagine. Yeah, yeah, I don't struggle with that as much as I used to, but I used to really struggle with what people thought, and it's really none of my business what people think. Oh, it's just, it is what it is like. I can't control that. I can't. I can just show up the best way that I can show up and it is what it is so can I ask you a question?
Speaker 2:sure we got time. So is there a story in your book that you were like the one, that you were reluctant or hesitant to?
Speaker 1:share? Here's a great question. Here's why I ask. So mine's about nine steps to sell. Actually, it's called Nine Steps to Sell More Shit. So it's really just a sales book. But I am in the process of writing a book about my story and the name of the book is Alcohol as a S a solution.
Speaker 1:I almost put it out earlier this year, but I didn't really go deep, and so there's a lot of really, not hard, there's a lot of really. You know, by all accounts, people would look at some of the things that I've done or been a part of and go what in the world? That's my thought anyway. But I also believe in a good friend of mine, jonathan Wissman. He wrote the sales boss. He said I don't think that you, I don't think you went deep enough here. He read through it and he said I don't. You didn't put all of it out here, and he's right, I didn't.
Speaker 1:I, I didn't even put the things that people really want to read, which is the really awful times, the times where I just didn't know, I didn't really want to wake up. I would have been fine not wake it up, I would have been fine. Just, I just needed the pain to stop and I didn't really outline that very well in my first draft. So I'm going back through and I'm writing about the things that that could be judged by others, but I believe it's the right thing to do. So I'm not really fear. So I don't know if that answers your question. So it's really more about the book. I'm writing now in the dark night of the soul and I need to put that in there and I'm in the process of doing that.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you censor or bleep any of your guests, but you may need to Go for it. I love you, Corey.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that and I love you, my friend, and I know you mean that genuinely.
Speaker 2:I totally do, brother.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I believe that. Yeah, I think there's going to be some stories in there that are it's. It makes me cringe, like I can't even believe it was in some of these situations, but it's the truth and it's what really happened and I believe that's really what. I think that's going to help people, because people can relate to being in that spot and those are the people really I'm trying to help is the people that are when life just looks like it is over, and there's been many of those times. You mentioned almost max and everything. I've been there. I've been where my house was in pre foreclosure and I thought honestly, I believed it wasn't going to happen and it didn't, and I think that belief is the only thing that got me through that situation and that's just the God's. I didn't have any proof. I didn't have any proof. I was going to get through it, but I believed it was all going to work out and it did. It's amazing.
Speaker 2:It's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know. This has been such a great conversation. I knew that it was going to be a really good conversation, but this is one of my favorite conversations I've had and I appreciate you massively. Yeah, thank you. I do have one quick question, because I meant to ask this earlier. You mentioned a guest on your gratitude list. What did you mean by that?
Speaker 2:So I do a daily email that goes to folks that are looking for a daily nudge, like just as a reminder to help them with their practice, and they get to read gratitudes three from me and three from a guest. So I have a guest different guests every week and any folks that want to subscribe to the Daily Gratitudes go to my website and you can subscribe to the Daily Gratitudes. I'd like you to be a guest for a week, though. That's what I said. I'll send you details on that outside when we're done.
Speaker 1:What is the website? Where can people go to find that when we're done? What is the website?
Speaker 2:Where can people go to find that Gratitudeatworkca?
Speaker 1:Perfect. Is there anywhere else you would like people to find you?
Speaker 2:Gratitude. If you want to connect with me on LinkedIn, find me on LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn and my website, and that's enough for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it makes sense. Do you ever publicly put the gratitudes out, like on LinkedIn?
Speaker 2:I post them on my website and for a while I was doing it on LinkedIn and, um, I know some guests the week that they're doing it. They will post them on LinkedIn, but I just decided I'm not. It's not part of what I'm posting on LinkedIn now.
Speaker 1:Makes sense. I've thought about that but I just didn't really. I wasn't really sure it's such a. I think it's such an intimate thing with me and it's not that I would care if somebody read it I don't, I could care less about that but I think it almost waters down the intimate If I were to post it on Facebook every day. I think it waters down the intimacy that it goes to the people I want it to go to. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it totally does.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Listen, I'm super grateful for you, super grateful that you spent this time with me today. I'm really grateful for the conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, me too. Grateful for you and grateful to Ryan who connected us for this great chat. So let's stay in touch, Corey.
Speaker 1:You got it, my friend. Thank you very much.
