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Successful Life Podcast
The Successful Life Podcast, hosted by Corey Berrier, is a globally recognized show that ranks in the top 2% of podcasts worldwide. It offers expert insights tailored for contractors, focusing on business strategies, sales skills development, and the integration of artificial intelligence (AI) in the industry.
Successful Life Podcast
The Next Generation of Trades: Essential Skills and Industry Evolution with Roger Wakefield
Are you ready to navigate the evolving landscape of the trades industry? Buckle up for an in-depth conversation with Roger Wakefield as we survey the effects of the pandemic on the HVAC industry, the need for differentiation in market offerings, and the use of advanced tech, such as SmartAC, which could revolutionize the way your HVAC system works!
The future is now in the world of plumbing and HVAC technology. We're not just talking about smart homes; we're exploring the potential of houses communicating with us. Walk with us as we install water meter devices, demystify gas load calculations, and marvel at the advent of tankless water heaters. We also underline the urgency for contractors to embrace this wave of technology as we anticipate a seismic upgrade in the home services industry.
But it's not all about the hard skills. Roger and I also delve into the soft skills that can make or break a tradesperson's career. We stress the significance of communication and sales skills, from providing customers with options to active listening. Find out why a career in the trades industry could be the smartest move you can make and how active listening can help you forge trust and connection with clients. From the seasoned professional to the aspiring tradesperson, this episode is an insightful exploration of the trades industry. Tune in to hear us chatting about everything from sales tactics to career options, and discover why the trades industry might just be your ticket to a prosperous future.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rogerwakefield/
https://www.youtube.com/@RogerWakefield
https://stan.store/RogerWakefield
https://www.facebook.com/RogerBWake/
https://www.texasgreenplumbing.com/about-us/
https://www.instagram.com/therogerwakefield/
https://www.audible.com/pd/9-Simple-Steps-to-Sell-More-ht-Audiobook/B0D4SJYD4Q?source_code=ASSORAP0511160006&share_location=library_overflow
https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Steps-Sell-More-Stereotypes-ebook/dp/B0BRNSFYG6/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1OSB7HX6FQMHS&keywords=corey+berrier&qid=1674232549&sprefix=%2Caps%2C93&sr=8-1
https://www.linkedin.com/in/coreysalescoach/
Welcome to the successful life podcast. I'm your host, Corey Barrier, and I am here with the one and only Roger Wakefield. What's up, Roger?
Speaker 2:Man such another day in paradise. How are you doing today, corey?
Speaker 1:I'm doing great man. Good to see you, you too. So it's been a little while since we've done our last show. I think it's been a couple of years actually. And so today, Roger, you know I know we're going to talk about sales, because that's my favorite thing to talk about and that's one of your favorite things to talk about. But I'm curious what is changing in the trades from your end? What's going on in the plumbing world that is different? I mean, what are you seeing right now, with two different directions here. The first one is like what are you seeing with your local people, the people that you deal with, Are there a lot? Is it down, like HVAC is down? I mean HVAC is down, you know, arguably 30 to 40 percent across the country.
Speaker 2:Well, corey, you got to think about this. Last year was probably a record year. It was hotter for longer than it has been in a long time, it was colder for longer than it has been in a long time. So I mean, we had the best of both worlds is HVAC. But you know, it's affecting plumbing, it's affecting everything.
Speaker 2:I think all the trades are down right now and I don't know if it's just because of politics, because of the world we're in, whatever is happening, but people are holding on to their money a little bit.
Speaker 2:We're getting ready to come up on another election year, so they're thinking, ok, not sure what's going to happen, where things are going to go, and it starts to do this about every four years like this, you know, based on just that. But you couple that onto the fact that last year was a phenomenal year for almost every HVAC company and of course, we always project to grow. So you take an HVAC company that, say, two years ago was doing 10 million, last year they did 20 million, and they're like OK, man, we had a phenomenal year and we're still going to project growth. So I know, for us we went from 10 million to 20 million, then projecting 27. And it's like man, it's going to be hard to hit that. So you know, plumbing is about the same, because we do plumbing and electrical. Now our plumbing numbers have gone up but you know the HVAC has dropped a lot. So as a company as a whole, it's a tough kind of a year to get through sometimes.
Speaker 1:It feels like it's just kind of back to normal, though, right, and we saw a huge spike, but that's not normal to see that much of a spike. And so what are you seeing as far as how people are selling these days? Because I tell you, you know, what I'm seeing, at least in HVAC, is these guys, the guys that depend on selling the new systems, are having trouble.
Speaker 2:A lot of them are. It's look whenever we have years like this, whenever it slows down a little bit, we need to focus on our message more. We need to focus on and every look. I talked to all the trades. You know, I started out my YouTube channel. It was all about homeowners and plumbing. Then it was talking to plumbers and then we started realizing, look, we get every trade in here. So we changed our channel over. Then we started a new channel, so we've got different things going on. But the thing is, when we have years like this, we need to focus on us. We need to focus on what are we learning? What is our message? Are we delivering our message right?
Speaker 2:But one thing too, that, corey, I think every company out there needs to do is look at what are we offering that our company competition isn't as plumbers. We should be doing slab leaks, leak detection, a whole water filtration systems as HVAC companies. Man, if we're not walking in every house, we walk in and doing an IEQ test, we're missing the boat because there's products out there that we could recommend. And I love it because these IEQ tests you can get third party verification. It's like look, it's not me telling your heirs bad.
Speaker 2:This is a company. This is what they do. It's what they look at every day, but I think that we as companies should be looking at that to increase our revenue. If we're an electrical company, we need to be looking at solar panels, we need to be looking at wind turbines, we need to be looking at whole house GFCIs. We need to be looking at things that we can become the expert, the guru in and put it out to our customers. If you're a plumbing company and you're not doing a water quality test in every single house you walk in, you're missing the boat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because that gives you the ability to have another conversation. Of course, no, I totally agree with you. So, as far as technology goes, what are you seeing? So I'll give you a quick example. There's a couple of companies out there, but I'll speak about one in particular. It's called SmartAC. Have you heard of it? I have not. So SmartAC and in my opinion this is going to be dated for sure.
Speaker 1:I mean, I already know that probably close to the end of the month there's going to be a better option out there, but right now they send out a physical product. They put it on your you know, your vent I'm pointing up here to my vent they can monitor, they see monitor. So they can monitor the system through the. You know the physical products attached to the unit and the and the vent. I do know that that is getting ready to be able to be monitored through Wi-Fi and I can't explain how that happens. But I know the guy that's building it and it's pretty crazy technology. Now, what would you say? A customer would pay for something like that. Now, you got to look at it a couple of different ways. The contractor well, let me just ask you, what do you think the benefits of that is, we're both a customer and contractor.
Speaker 2:But for the customer. If you can look at your phone and it tells you, hey, you're not getting as many CFMs as you normally do, it's reduced from 100% the day you put the filter in. When you hit the reset button, it's reduced down to 85%. It may be time to go ahead and check the filters. I know you've got a three month filter in there. I know it's only been two months, but the CFM tell us look, there's a problem here. So you're putting a load on your fan motor that you shouldn't be putting on it. And when you can, when you know that as a consumer, it makes you smarter about your systems.
Speaker 2:There's a similar product like that for water meters that can tell you if your house has a leak. You get a notification on your phone. It says, hey, you've got a leak. If it's a big enough leak, there's a button you can press on your phone that will shut the water off at your house. So there's so many new products out there. But I mean, think about it, corey.
Speaker 2:Our homes are getting smarter and smarter every year, and I mean my thermostat communicates with me. Right now I can look at my app, set my thermostat, do whatever I want to do turn it off, turn it on. The better we get at that, the more, and you know I've talked to you a while ago about as a plumber. Learn leak detection. Learn how to tunnel underhouses and fix leak. Learn to do things that most plumbing companies in your area are not doing. Okay, now what if you become the smart house guru in your area? Hey, I'm an HVAC guy, but do you know that there's a device that we can put on your water heater that does this? And now you become the smart house guy. And now when they go to buy a water heater, they're like well, wait, I got to call my smart house guy. Hey, what water heater would you buy? Because I want to be able to talk to it like I do with my air vents. That is phenomenal.
Speaker 1:Even better would be if they could just open that one app that they've already got that communicates with everything else, and they could just ask the app hey, what do you recommend? Yeah, yeah, guess what Now? And then it calls yeah, 100. So from a customer, okay. From a contractor standpoint, that's a great point. From a contractor standpoint, it locks that customer in.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, because here's the deal especially with this water meter device I'm talking about. I can set it up where it notifies me when they've got a leak. Yeah, now I can call you and say hey, corey, I noticed that your house has a leak. You're like Roger, I'm in Hawaii, I'm not even I've turned off all my notifications. Okay, would you like me to go ahead and run by the house and check it, or do you just want me to go ahead and just turn the water off? You know what? We'll be back in two days. Turn the water off now. If you have time, get over there in the next couple of days. I've got the smart door knob so I can open the house whenever you get there. Matter of fact, here's your code. Text me when you're done. I'll turn it back off, but you have access to the house. Yeah, please, let me know what's going on. Our houses are going to be able to talk to us like that every day. If we're the contractor, we want to be the guy who understands this better than anybody Most plumbers right now.
Speaker 2:I had this conversation with Rana here recently. This is a Roger. Why don't more plumbers install tankless water heaters? It's because they're afraid of them. They don't understand them enough. I mean, we've had tanks forever. Just cut off the old one, put the new one in. But a tankless water heater? Now you got to look at the gas. You've got to do a gas load calculation chart. You've got to know how many BTUs you need everywhere, not just at that tankless water heater, but everywhere else in the house. Is the line in the yard big enough? Is the line coming into the house big enough? If not, do you need to increase the pressure and put regulators everywhere? There's so many things to learn.
Speaker 2:But, man, if you become that guru, when you walk in house you're like, hey, you need a tankless. They're like, yeah, the last plumber said no. It's like, well, he's afraid of them. Sorry, just I'm being honest with you, and that's what it is. We need to be the people that are listening to this. Look, you're, you're the leading edge people. Get out and learn how to be the expert in your area on whatever the future is bringing. Don't look at what you should be doing now. What should you be doing three years from now? What are we going to be? Our houses are going to be talking to us three years from now. Me and you know that you need to become the guy that says hey look, I've mastered this. I can make your house talk to you in three different languages, and another plumber in the world knows how to do that. When you can become that guy, you're going to make as much money as you want to make 100%.
Speaker 1:Imagine this. Let's shift back to the age fact. It hits time to do Well. All right, I got a couple of ways I could go with this. So what customers don't want us to come in there? They don't want you there twice a year. We all, we all could agree they do not want you or anybody else in their house twice a year. You can keep keep charging that maintenance agreement because you, because you can monitor that stuff, you can reduce spending three to five hundred dollars Put to put that truck in the driveway. You times that by your you know, 500 customers. That's a lot of money, right.
Speaker 2:I like what you're headed, but now listen to this. You talked about the unit that they can put on the grill. What if you put one on the fan motor to? Hey, it's using 10% more arms right now there's a problem. Hey, we're picking up a vibration, you're about to lose some bearings.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:I believe it does. Yeah, it's going to. That's going to be phenomenal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so. So, even as phenomenal as that sounds there, this guy and I can't mention his name, but he figured out how to do all of this through the system that, through the outside unit. I guess it's supposed to Bluetooth, probably not Bluetooth Wi-Fi and so it communicates just like you're talking about through the thermostat and anyhow. Look, anybody's listed as this knows that I'm pretty big into the technology realm currently and my goal is to bring contractors up to date, because, as you and I both know and this is not a dig on contractors, but we're five to 10 years behind most people in technology and I would argue, I would place a bet, that the home services industry alone is getting ready to have such a massive upgrade in technology that you got to get on board, because if you don't get on board, you're really going to be lost.
Speaker 2:Now. And, Corey, let me help take you to the next level. Now You're talking about the system for HVAC is Wi-Fi. The system I'm talking about for the water meter is cellular. It has its own phone number. It communicates cellular. So and think about this it's also battery operated. It's also waterproof, so it's continuously communicating. It's got a battery that it runs on that can cycle the valve to the house, I believe, a thousand times. The battery will last. I believe right now they've got it built for two, but they can. They can upgrade the battery to a five year battery so the plumber doesn't have to come out every five years to change the battery or anything like that. But it's waterproof, so it can go in your valve box. Which a lot of the new products out there that they say this is a leak detection system. What's got to go in the house? It's Wi-Fi and it's got to be plugged in. The big freeze we had here two years ago, we lost power. Nobody had Wi-Fi, Nobody had electricity to shut the valve. Everybody who had that was screwed.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I didn't think about that and I also didn't know that. I didn't know that about the, the sale you. That makes complete sense.
Speaker 2:And the guy who designed it has a patent on it, where nobody else can do cellular technology on that type system unless they want to license it from him.
Speaker 1:That was smart.
Speaker 2:Yes, indeed Are you the guy no, no. If I was Corey, I wouldn't be sitting here on the phone. I'd be on a beach in Miami saying, hey, how you doing brother.
Speaker 1:No doubt, no doubt. Speaking of technology, you've got some stuff that's going to be coming out that I'll let you talk about it, since it's your your deal, but I would love for you to share with everybody a little bit about what you've been working on.
Speaker 2:Well, corey, I realized that when I got into the trades I did what 95, 98% of tradesmen do. We get in the trade to become an HVAC tech, an electrician, a plumber, whatever the case may be. Once we get that license in our pocket, we stop learning. I got into, become a plumber. I am one. Let me go plumb every day. But I started learning and I started growing and that's when I started realizing look, now I'm getting offered form and in superintendent jobs I moved up to director of operations for mechanical contractor and Dallas, and I did this because I was learning things that nobody else was learning. They knew how to put pop together just like I did. I've always. I walk on. I always tell myself look, I want to be the best plumber on this job. So when I was working with other companies when I got in the union whatever the case may be. So looking back at that and looking, I mean I've been coached by Michael Gerber, I've been coached by Pete Vargas, I've been coached by Brendan Brashard. I have learned some great stuff from a lot of different people. So I started looking at wait, why aren't other trades people doing what I'm doing? And it's just the information's not there, the product in there and I got interviewed one time podcast similar to this and the lady when we were done. She says Roger, you're literally creating a path for people to get in the trades that they don't even know is there. So think about it. When kids get out of high school, they're told if you don't go to college, you're never going to mount anything. And that is so sad and it's so not true. So I started working on an education courses knowledge, whatever you want to call it to teach people how to get in the trades, teach them how to become the very best tradesman they can be, to teach them how to start their own businesses and then to teach them how to use networking, social media and video to grow those businesses. And I did this because I went to a social media marketing conference and I learned that YouTube is the second largest search engine in the world and I thought wait, it's owned by Google and we're paying a fortune to Google every month. Why aren't we doing anything on YouTube? You've heard me speak. You've heard me talk about that before, so I learned that.
Speaker 2:Well, about four months ago, five months ago, my YouTube coach is also Mr Beast YouTube coach, and he came to me and actually he called me. We had seen each other at a conference in March and he messaged me one day and says hey, I'd like to talk to you. So I called him up. I said hey, what's going on? He said I want you to create an app and I want you to create it for the trades. He said, actually, I want you to create it for plumbers. And I said, man, it's funny you mentioned that because I'm already working on courses to teach people how to get in the trades, how to become the best tradesman, how to start their business, how to use networking and social media to grow. And he said, yeah, but I want it to be more than that. I don't want it to just be courses. I want you to make videos specifically for these people. I want you to do all these different things. I mean, I got excited about it, so we've been working on it. It's man. We're probably going to be releasing in about a month and right now the app is called Wake Field. It's not out yet, but it's something we've been working on for a while and we're so excited to watch it grow.
Speaker 2:I mean, corey, you know this, we go to trade school, we go to college and I say college thinking for trades. We go to the union, we go to PHCC, we go to work for a company, open shop and just learn as we grow. Those people teach us how to put wires together, how to charge a system, how to install a fan motor, how to pull wire through house and wire the switches. They don't teach us how to become great. They don't teach us that mindset of moving up to the next level. That is what keeps us from making more money. We just look. I got in the trade. I wanted to become a great plumber. I should have wanted to become a great business owner. I should have wanted to become a great entrepreneur. I just didn't do that.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, they don't teach you. They don't teach you that. You're right. I think that's vitally important. Doctors the same way they don't teach doctors anything about business. It's the same. It's really, really short-sighted, I think, on their part. I'm not sure the rhyme or reason behind that, but I think that's great. Give me an example of a Shopeekin really quick to. If you mentioned how to, I want to teach. We're going to teach people how to get into the trades. Give me an example of that. What do you mean?
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, in the training I ask questions like look, what do you like to do? Me personally, I would have never been a good electrician if the idea of getting shocked just pisses me off. Okay, I don't like electricity, I don't want to be shocked. And I say I don't like it, I love having it, I just don't want to mess with it, I don't want to deal with it. And it's funny because whenever I went to HVAC school I was shocked. First day or second day they said, okay, 90% of the problems with electric I mean with HVAC is electrical. And I'm like wait, what? I don't want to do this. And anyway I did.
Speaker 2:But we don't teach kids how to get in the trades. So the first thing is what do you like to do? And I mean, think about this. If you came to me today and says, roger, look, I want to get in the trades, I don't know what to do, I'll be like well, what's important to you? You know, do you? Do you? Do you like water? Do you enjoy water? Do you like electricity? Did you build the electric circuit boards when you were a kid and you just loved it? You know, like electricity or HVAC may be great for you If you're like man. Look, I used to build birdhouses and clocks and bread boxes and all this. Okay, you know what. You may want to be a carpenter I look, I love water. Water slides always blew my mind. How do they get the water all the way up top? How do they do this? I love that.
Speaker 2:So I ask questions like that and then it's well, what about construction versus service? And that's really easy. It's do you like to build things or do you like to fix things? What do you like to do? It's like oh my God, I love building stuff. Okay, me, I love fixing stuff. My dad taught me when I was young how to work on cars. So it's like look, I can take a car, I can change brakes, alternators, starters, fuel pumps. I mean, I can do all kinds of cool stuff. And I could since I was in high school. So I knew that I love fixing stuff.
Speaker 2:Now I got into plumbing as a contractor, as a new built contractor, working with them, so I learned how to do remodels and things like that. So you ask questions like that. Then you come back. Well, what about union or non union? Have you thought about that? Union in my area is mainly commercial, not residential, so they don't do any service. So it's just, it's different questions to ask, to guide them through a journey, to help them figure out what they want to do.
Speaker 2:Then you take them to a whole another level. It's like okay, I want you to do research in your area. What trades are growing, what trades are in need? Call around to 10 companies. If you wanted to do plumbing and you wanted to do service, I'd say, okay, go and then watch TV at night. What companies are advertising on there? You need to call them because those are the people that are growing, investing in themselves, and normally most of those companies they have a good training program, man, it's just.
Speaker 2:The process can keep going all the way up to the interview process. You know most people don't understand. They're like, hey man, I filled out an application, I went down to get a job, and they just walk in thinking, okay, they're going to interview me and give me a job. They need to understand that person interviewing them has a need, that person has a position they're trying to fill. And if you learn to ask the right questions, not only are you going to get the job offer, you're probably going to be able to ask for more money than the 10 guys they're not hiring. And when you know things like that, when somebody has taught you things like that, it makes it so much easier because now you walk in with confidence.
Speaker 2:You walk in where you don't just walk in the interview and sit down. You walk in and say Mr Corey, I'm Roger Wakefield, it's such a pleasure to meet you, thank you for giving me this opportunity today. And you're dressed like a professional plumber or HVAC tech. You've got on starch chains, you've got on work boots, you've got your shirt tucked in which I never do You've got your phone turned off and you walk in.
Speaker 2:You introduce yourself, you sit down, you go through the interview process when they ask you questions. You've got a list of three or four questions, but you want to remember don't ask a question they've really already talked about. And one of my favorite questions is, mr Corey, like if I come to work for your company, how's this going to make me a better person, not just a better plumber? How's this going to make me a better person? And let them understand that, look, you really care about growing and learning. And then, when you're done, when they ask if you have any more? No, sir, do you have any more questions for me? Thank you very much, and make sure that you write some of these answers down, if it's important, and then when you get up you go shake their hand again. Mr Corey, I just want to say one more time thank you so much. Whether I get the job or not, I greatly appreciate you allowing me the opportunity to come in and talk to you today. Dude, you're hired Hired.
Speaker 1:I mean you got the job.
Speaker 2:You got the job because nobody else is doing that, because nobody's teaching them that. Hey, we can teach you how to dig a ditch. We can teach you how to use a shovel. I want to teach people to be freaking amazing. So when they walk in and apply for a job, they know before they walk out they've got it. That guy sitting behind there looking at him like man yeah that's the answer I'm looking for right there.
Speaker 2:Heck, yeah, 100%. Even if they're not looking for somebody, they want to hire you. They're like man look, I need this kid, that's right, that's what you want to do. That's what I try to teach people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because, look, there's a hundred different brownies that you could go out to the store and buy or make, but what makes your brownie different? And that's what makes it different, right there, that's what makes it different. So let's shift not really even shift, but so along the same line of communication, one of the biggest issues that I see Ludo and I'm working with the teams that I work with is they are scared to sell Because, look, most people go into the trades because they do like to fix things or they like to build things, like to work with their hands. They're kinesthetic learners, which means that they're maybe not that great at communication. Maybe that's just something that they haven't focused a whole lot on. So how are you bridging the gap? Because you've done a great job explaining how to do it at the beginning. What happens when they get the job?
Speaker 2:Well, now it's, it shifts a little bit. If you're putting yourself in a position and this is what I tell people that I hire that they say, look, I don't want to do sales, Okay, I don't want you to be a salesperson, I want you to be an options provider. I want you to be able to look at this entire house, this entire problem, and say, hey, look, you asked us to change the toilet, or, yes, to fix your toilet. I'll tell you what this toilet is an old toilet. We can still get the parts, but if I do it, I'm just going to put your toilet back in the same position it looked like in 1996 when it was installed. Now what we could do is go ahead and provide you with a new toilet, and these new toilets are ultra high efficiency. It's going to save you almost a gallon every time you flush, and I know that doesn't seem like a lot, but with water, what it is these days, it can be and, by the way, whenever I did my whole home inspection. You've got a water heater that it is 16 years old. They're designed to last six to eight years. Yours actually has a 12 year warranty on it, so you got a nicer one, but it's still six years beyond its warranty and it's in your attic, right above your living room. I just want to make you aware that I'm not telling you anything's wrong with it, but that's like a ticking time bomb and when it, if it ruptures, if it busts hopefully for you it just stops working. You swap it out. But if not, I just wanted to let you know about it. And you put that in their mind and you say oh, by the way, I went ahead and put that in the pricing to. I gave you an option for that. That way, if you so choose to do that, it's fine. If not, if there's someone you need to talk to and you know, especially if it's the man in the house look, if you need to talk to your wife to get permission, that's like I don't need to get permission. Okay. Same thing with the wife. Look, if you need to call your husband and get permission, it's like who do you think where's the pants in this family? Okay, then we're good. But you have those conversations.
Speaker 2:Now here's one thing that I teach every person to that most of us never even think about. When we go to school, we're taught how to read, we're taught how to write. We're taught how to talk. They don't teach us how to listen.
Speaker 2:And the biggest thing that we need to do is listen to the customer, because they're going to tell you their pain points. They're going to tell you why they do what they do. They're going to tell you what's important to them and your answer your options back to them. Better cover those why they want it. And I teach my guys it's listen to repeat. Don't just let them tell you about the problem. You're not thinking, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, I know. So we need to change this, we need to change this, we need to do this. You listen to them and you say you know, Corey, what I heard you say is you wanted me to explain how I train salespeople that really don't want to be trained as salespeople, and I do that by not teaching them sales but teaching them communications, All by from people they know love, trust and they're connected to. We've got to build that connection. You think you're up for that?
Speaker 1:I think so.
Speaker 1:I love that it's active listening, dude, it's so important, it's so, so, so important. And one of the things that drives me the most crazy because we do, these guys usually do know what the customer is going to say, or pretty close to it, even if you know you don't sound smarter when you finish their sentence. You don't. It's offensive. It's offensive when people do it to me, I'm sure it's offensive when people do it to you, and it certainly offensive to the customer because it sounds, feels, like you don't really give a shit what I'm saying. You bet you don't really care, you just want to talk.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you think you already know everything, so tell me what's wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah right.
Speaker 2:And now you're in the jam. And here's the bad thing. You know, whenever we would send plumbers out and the customer calls upset, normally customers like, look, I told them four times where the problem was, they never even looked there. They thought they knew they tried to do this. They try. This is not what I told them. I told them look, right, here is where we've had this problem. And they never even looked at it. And then you call the plumbers like, hey, did they tell you this? It's like I never heard them say that. Well, did you? Yeah, I listened to them. Okay, wait, you're already jumping ahead of me. Is that what you did to them?
Speaker 1:You know what I mean, yeah, 100%, and it's not. I say it's not hard, it takes it does take practice. It takes a lot of practice because it's human nature to. I guess it's human nature to finish people's sentences, I don't know, maybe it's just human nature in our industry, but but, but 100%, it makes a customer feel like like you don't care and they're not going to buy from you willingly if they think you don't care.
Speaker 2:You know, and and Coral, look, I don't think that. I don't think trades people do it to be rude. I think they're like look, I'm trying to help you, I know what you're talking about. No one should understand that. And I'm trying to save you time. Uh, I understand what you're talking about, I know what you need, but that's why you know you call it active listening and I call it listen to repeat. Listen to them, talk so close and so well that you can repeat to them what they're saying, Because if, when they're through talking, you can tell them okay, so you've had this problem with your water heaters.
Speaker 2:So let me get this right. You've had this problem with your water heater for two years now. You've had three other plumbing companies come out to look at it and they didn't try to do this. The chair of wealth. And then you get. You get them nodding. They're like they're already listening to you, they're already bought in. You're showing them more respect than any of those three companies that have ever been out there. You're building that connection no, love, trust and connected to yeah that's what it's about.
Speaker 1:I agree, I totally agree. So great explanation on you know I'm that's, dude, that's. I think that is unbelievably important, what you're doing with this app and you know just that interview example that you gave along, just that one thing, and I'm not minimizing what it takes to get all that done at all, but it's so powerful and it will change how you're treated from that employer from that day forward, which means you're going to have a better career.
Speaker 2:And not only that, this customer, that you're dealing with the employer. You're building relationships, no matter which one. You talk to, the interview, this guy, you. You may work there two years and leave five years and leave whatever. This guy's never going to forget you and somewhere down the road you're going to come in and you're going to want to go back to work there, or he's moved somewhere else and you want to go to work for him over there and you've built that relationship. You have been memorable and you're going to be just fine.
Speaker 2:You treat the customers the same way. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I know that. I love what Southwest Airlines does. We know you can choose any airlines. Thank you for choosing us, and they say it on every flight. Take just a moment to say thank you. It's like look and and and again. I teach my plumbers. Uh, I teach everybody. Really, these people are not just a customer, it's not just a number, it's not just an amount. These people are putting your kids through school. They're paying for date night, friday night. They're paying for your daughter's new tennis shoes that she needs for soccer. They're paying for your truck that you're taking your wife out on date night in these people like they matter to you, because they really do. And then what one of the last big things is in? In Brenton Burchard says you know when you look at people pretend they have on their forehead see me, hear me, acknowledge me and love me. If you love your customers, you'll never do them wrong.
Speaker 1:That's right. And look, you can take this advice straight home tonight because that'll work with your wife or your husband. I mean, you made you couldn't have laid it out any better. That's hilarious, that's great, that's yeah, I love it. So right now are you? You know, I haven't looked at the statistics in a while, but I know I guess it was probably maybe a year ago. Maybe, yeah, I guess so, Cause I did my talk at Ph HCC about this time last year and I talked about how you know there's not, there's zero percent people coming into the trades. Are you seeing any movement on that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, here's the here's the way I teach it whenever I'm explaining to people. Right now, the average median age for plumbers in Texas is 57, 58 years old. That's old. That's me. I'm 60. I just turned 60. So I'm right at that median age for every every year. Now, for every 10 people that retire, only about four are getting back into the trade.
Speaker 2:And I'm not just talking plumbing, I'm talking plumbing, electrical, hgac, and those are the three skilled trades, the license trades, the professional trades that I talk about mostly Now. We need roofers, we need carpenters, we need masons, we need so many other things. Every trade out there needs people. I was talking to somebody the other day. I was talking about a company up in. It was either Sacramento or San Francisco. The gas is I can hire 90 technicians today, 90. That's how many I need. There's a million unfilled skilled trades jobs across the United States right now. We got to fill it.
Speaker 2:If we don't, it's going to hurt the homeowner because five years from now, when we're having to pay plumbers and HVAC tax $100 an hour or more, we need to literally be able to look at that and say okay, wait. And I mean look at the numbers that the plumbing companies and HVAC companies are going to charge him, because if I'm paying a plumber $100 an hour, my charge-out rate and he's to be somewhere between $550 and $750, maybe even more. But that's the situation we're building, because principals, counselors, teachers, parents, aunts and uncles are telling these kids if you don't go to college, you're never going to mount anything. No, you're wrong. If you don't go to college and you go to the trades, you're going to get there quicker.
Speaker 1:That's right. And look, I'm going to say, take this one step further. If you're listening to this and you're thinking about getting into the trades, it benefits you because you're going to be one of these few people that are getting paid the numbers that Roger's talking about. And guess what? You don't have $60, $80, $100,000 in debt coming out of college, which I'm not so sure these days. I don't even know what options people have coming out of college because I have my own opinions about that. I think going into the skilled trades is the smartest thing that you can do because it is just. It gives you the Think about all the money that you Just the four years that you would be in school, how much money you can stack up without really paying. I mean going to trade schools next to nothing Can be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can go to trade school here in the Dallas area. I think it's a two-year program. It's about four grand, five grand, something like that. Yeah, They'll finance it for you. They make it really, really easy.
Speaker 2:But the thing about that too is if you got in the union right now and I looked at these numbers probably three or four years ago but if you got in the union right now and went through their five-year training program, in that five years you're going to make about $300,000. That's income. There is no student debt on that. So while your doctor or lawyer is going to school for eight years and accruing a couple hundred grand in student debt, you're $300 a head and, believe it or not, when you turn out as a journeyman, when they walk out the door, as a starting attorney or doctor, you're going to make about the same amount of money. You do $80,000, $90,000 a year $100,000. If you don't make a hundred grand a year in the trades right now, you're not doing something right. You need to get on my app and learn new things, because tradesmen should make over $100,000. I've made over $100,000 a year since 1999. Over it's not hard to do. It's really not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I agree with you, I totally agree. And look, I mean I think a lot of people, as you mentioned teachers, even parents, they look down on this. But guess what? You're in a recession-proof industry. Like, if my pipes break, I'm not going to let my house flood. It doesn't really matter what it costs to get fixed. I'm going to pay the price because I don't want my number one asset to be destroyed.
Speaker 2:And we're essential when the world locks down. Guess what? You still need conditioned air, you still need electricity, you still need plumbing Most of the rest of it. We can let that slide a little while, but when you look at those three things right there, they're not sliding Right.
Speaker 1:That's right, 100%. Yeah, I think it's. You know, I think it'd be the smartest move for most people, especially people that you know. Like me, I wasn't great in school. I hated school, I didn't go to trade. I didn't go to trade school, but I should have.
Speaker 2:Look, I hate it. I went to school because that's where the girls were and that's where football was. The only reason I went.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, I mean, that's two pretty good reasons. I guess it is, but you don't. You paid a pretty penny for that, but it look, at the end of the day, not knocking people at go to school, because I'm not talking college, I'm talking high school.
Speaker 2:I didn't go to college. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I got out of high school. I started. Matter of fact, I quit school the middle of my junior year and got into plumbing. Luckily, I had been dating a girl in high school that called me one day and she said I don't think I could ever marry somebody that didn't graduate high school. I ended up going back graduating with my class, thank gosh, because in Texas you've got to have your GED or your high school diploma to get your license. So I did, I went back and I've actually got college hours now, because to become an instructor in a union you've got to go to the instructor training program. Through the union you can take the UA star plumbing exam, the UA star pop fitter exam. I did both of those. So you get college credit for that. So I mean, I've probably got I don't know, 30, 40 hours, but it's just because I needed to do it to teach. Yeah, I didn't want to go to college.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I tried it, but it didn't really work out. So, yeah, so you said you started a second YouTube channel. Can you tell me a bit more about that? I don't know if I I don't know if I knew that.
Speaker 2:It's called the trade talks and it literally it's about the trades I've had. I saw you in Tommy Mello's chat earlier. Tommy Mello flew in, I brought him in. I've got my office right on the other side of this wall back here behind me and that's where we shoot all our podcasts and bring tradespeople and we talk about how they got in the trade, how they became a great tradesman, why and how they started their business and then how they're growing it, what they're doing right. So it was neat.
Speaker 2:I heard Tommy speak at an event got earlier this year and, man, we connected. He's a really nice guy and I told him about things I was just. I said, man, I'd love to interview you, so just let me know when. So gave me a cell phone number. I shot him a message one day and said, hey, I'm serious, I would like to interview you. And he reached out a little bit later and said let me know when. So we started doing that. But I mean, I've had some of the biggest company owners in town. I've had people that are starting out as apprentices from around the country that they're getting in. I've had a lot of females come in. But that's where I think we improve the trades. We start recruiting more females in. Females work smarter and it's just. It's going to be good for us to help fill those numbers. When I say there's a million unfilled trades jobs, it's going to get worse every year. So we've got to start recruiting and bringing more people into the trades.
Speaker 1:I don't know about you, but if I had an option to have a woman come to my house and fix my plumbing, opposed to a dude guess what I'm going to try I'd probably choose the woman.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, you talk about that. Coler used to have a commercial. This guy's in his bathroom and he hears a van or something. He opens up his blinds and this girl gets out and goes around back, grabs a toolbox, throws it on her shoulder and walks in the house and you know it says you know whatever plumbing company, yada, yada, yada. So, man, this guy just starts grabbing stuff and pouring it in his toilet and flushing it, and he's, of course, trying to stop it up so that he can get a plumber to come over. And all of a sudden he dumped something in his last time there. She looks at him and she's like what are you doing? He's like, uh, it was so cute.
Speaker 2:But man, there are some amazing women in plumbing. I spoke at Dallas County College the other day and I always ask the girls have you ever thought about getting in plumbing? And they laugh. They're like oh God, no, like what if I told you the number one and number one plumber in Texas was a woman? And I'm like what do you mean? Well, the executive director of the Texas State Board is Lisa Hill. She's phenomenal. She has every master endorsement. She understands plumbing better than most people. And they're like I didn't know that. It's like look, anybody can be a plumber, but women normally become great. It's the same for HVAC. I'm part owner of Rescue Air and one of the best technicians we got is female. She is meticulous about every single little thing she does and it's just great to see.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, yeah, I agree. I did not know that about the lady in Texas. I don't live in Texas, so maybe that'd be the reason why that probably would be, the reason.
Speaker 1:Yep, I would not have anticipated that, though, but I do know more females are coming into the trades, and I do think it's a great thing. I've got a friend Her name is Heather Hitchcock she does. It's a roofing company, and you know she's just out there kicking ass. I mean, you know, just you know, and I think it's cool, I think it's really cool.
Speaker 2:Yes, they do great work.
Speaker 1:They make sense, makes total sense, way more detail oriented, I'm certain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, guys, we just want to jump in, manhandle that Hurry up, get it done and get out.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:Women are like yeah, we're going to slow down, we're going to do this right. It's like okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, roger, where can people find you? Where can they get information? I know the app's not out yet, but where could they go to maybe subscribe to something? To where they'll know when this app comes out?
Speaker 2:Well, I'm easy to find on YouTube. You know I love I tell people go to YouTube and search plumbing. That's it. Scroll down. You're going to see the mustache Hit subscribe. You can reach out to my website. Find us there, roger Wakefieldcom. And if you really want to connect with me, go to LinkedIncom. Look for Roger Wakefield. I pretty much do LinkedIn myself. We're on every social platform out there. We're easy to find, but that's how people can get in touch with me and see what all we're doing.
Speaker 2:We will have a link on the Roger Wakefield website to the courses and to the app and all that and the app. There's going to be a lot of good free stuff in it too. It's not just courses. So I don't want anybody to think that you've heard of John Maxwell who does Morning Minute with Maxwell. Yeah, we're doing wake up with Wakefield, where every day we jump in we do a motivational video and people can see it and hear it and listen to it and whatever they want to do, and that's part of the free app. So there's going to be a lot of good things on it. But the thing is it's all about teaching tradespeople. Look, we're not to be looked down at, we are professionals and it really is a big deal.
Speaker 1:Man, I'm excited for you, roger, thank you very much, my friend. I've really enjoyed this conversation.
Speaker 2:Corey, it's been great. Thank you for having me on here. I appreciate you, brother, and everything you're doing for the trades, my pleasure, my friend.
